This is highway robbery (recycle, gas, pollution, mpg)
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Location: The Frenchie Farm, Where We Grow 'em Big!
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I hate when fellow Americans take advantage of the plight of America. And what's worse is that people will pay for thousand of dollars of the blue book price for the hybrid. PT Barnum was right, "There's a sucker born every minute!"
A friend of the family was looking at buying one of these. The dealer said they were charging 5,000.00 OVER msrp, and he told them to go t0 @#&%%! I had shown him earler that buing a used Mercedes diesel was a much cheaper way to go, and you don't sacrifice ride or comfort. There's a business selling "bio-diesel" for the same price as gasoline, so the math just makes sense. Nobody thinks about how expensive it will be when those batteries need replacement in a hybrid car either.
When I was car shopping for a hybrid in 2004, when gas prices were still comfortably low, a used Prius was going for well over the price of new. Why? Because there was still a year long waiting list.
So this isn't anything new. Supply and demand.
It was out of my price range (used and new), so I went with the honda civic hybrid and couldn't be happier. However, I didn't buy it to save money - at the time, the gas savings were basically negated by the higher insurance. Now, the cost savings is significant, but I bought it for its better performance in terms of pollution. I needed to drive, but figured I'd do so with as minimal an impact as possible. Diesel wasn't practical for me, as a lot of my driving is in-town, with lots of starts and stops.
It's a free market and the market varies by region. People aren't paying over blue book for a used Prius where I am in the Roanoke, Virginia area. People aren't paying over MSRP on a new Prius in my area either. Frankly, the Prius isn't a cheap car with an expensive engine. While it is not a luxury car, it has a more refined interior than an entry level car with smoother suspension and higher soundproofing. It is also a mid-size car, notably larger than a Civic Hybrid although it may not look it at first glance; so it shouldn't be compared directly against the Civic since the Civic is a compact car that addresses different needs. Unless you've sat inside one, it's easy to dismiss it as a sub-compact car but the car needs to be judged from the inside due to its unique wheelbase design. Furthermore, the Prius MSRP of $24K isn't far off from other vehicles with its standard of quality.
A used Mercedes diesel is designed to run on pump diesel and the price of pump diesel is $4.65/gallon. If you can find a practical bio-diesel source then more power to you; the rest of us don't have the time to ferret out bio-diesel from dodgy and unreliable sources. Furthermore, I don't know of many 4 door U.S. diesel powered automobiles that are capable of averaging 51mph like I'm enjoying in my Prius. We bought ours in 2005 and have had 64,000 trouble-free miles so far. Even so, at current diesel and gas prices, that diesel automobile would have to average 58mpg to cancel out the extra cost of diesel fuel.
The bottom line is that mpg MATTERS. If you commute 40 miles round trip daily, a 50mpg vehicle makes a BIG difference. Don't discount the Prius with second or third hand stories that ignore the realities of the current and future price of fuel.
I was told that when 1 battery went bad you had to replace ALL batteries. AND what is going to happen to all those unwanted batteris...like plastic......distroy the enviroment for decades!
Batteries are easily recyclable. Toyota has an 8 year warranty on the battery system. Your concern is valid but you're failing to look at the big picture.
Look at it another way. I'll draw up an example. A 2009 Toyota Prius gets purchased and averages 48mpg in mixed driving over 10 years at an average of 15,000 miles a year. A 2009 Toyota Camry non-hybrid gets purchased and gets 25mpg in mixed driving over the same period. At the end of each vehicle's life cycle, the Prius has consumed 3,125 gallons; the Camry has consumed 6,000 gallons. The cash savings alone is at least $12,000 presuming gas won't continue to increase in price; but we know that won't be the case. Gas prices have tripled over the past 10 years. In any event, the owner of the Prius has more disposable income, income which may be used to spend on toys or can be reinvested in other efficiency improvements (like a new super efficient HVAC system for their home) that will save them even more money over time. But the most direct benefit in my comparison is that the Prius consumes 3,000 less gallons of fuel during its 10 year lifespan. Even presuming some content within the batteries cannot be recycled and must be landfilled, the Prius is still SUBSTANTIALLY better for the environment. How? During its lifespan, the Camry converted 26,000 MORE pounds (13 tons!) of fuel into heat and pollution. That isn't counting the pollution and energy spent on refining the 26,000 pounds of extra fuel that the Camry requires, and transporting the 26,000 pounds of extra fuel from refineries to the local gas station.
So, to summarize my example: The Prius may require +/- 500 pounds of battery waste to be landfilled, but the Camry consumed 26,000 more pounds of fuel largely converted into waste heat and air pollution. 500 pounds in a landfill versus 26,000 pounds in the atmosphere. Hmmm.
It's a free market and the market varies by region. People aren't paying over blue book for a used Prius where I am in the Roanoke, Virginia area. People aren't paying over MSRP on a new Prius in my area either. Frankly, the Prius isn't a cheap car with an expensive engine. While it is not a luxury car, it has a more refined interior than an entry level car with smoother suspension and higher soundproofing. It is also a mid-size car, notably larger than a Civic Hybrid although it may not look it at first glance; so it shouldn't be compared directly against the Civic since the Civic is a compact car that addresses different needs. Unless you've sat inside one, it's easy to dismiss it as a sub-compact car but the car needs to be judged from the inside due to its unique wheelbase design. Furthermore, the Prius MSRP of $24K isn't far off from other vehicles with its standard of quality.
Just for the record - I wasn't comparing the civic hybrid with a Prius. Given that the latter was out of my price range (used or new), the Honda Civic Hybrid was the next best alternative.
My reference was December 2004. There were no new Prius to be found within 100 miles of me, and all the dealers were saying 12-18 months. I managed to find one used, and that was being offered at more than the new with waiting list.
Someone told me yesterday that the plant where the toyota batteries are manufactured is surrounded by now dead forest. Any truth to that?
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