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Oil industry scientists now believe the earth is constantly producing oil; that it is not a finite resource. They come to this conclusion based on empirical evidence. This makes a lot of sense to me.
The above statement is probably the best argument I've ever read for why we need stronger science education in our high schools. That fact that there are people out there who believe this is very disturbing.
It was the so called "green" crowd that forced us to use these darn plastic shopping bags that don't hold anything worth a darn. I'm so tired of groceries spilling out all over my car, and having to carry twice as many smaller bags in the house — the paper bags held more, and contained the items so they didn't spill out. Grocery clerks were actually trained how to "bag" items, so your bread wasn't crushed by cans, and your fruit didn't get bruised. Today, they just toss stuff in those da_n plastic bags. Besides, the plastic bags are all over the place, in the trees and brush, in the streams and lakes. Give me a break! Is that "green"? Thanks, wackos. Paper is more environmentally friendly, and the paper mill people can have their jobs back.
No paper, no plastic, use these (or a variant of):
ChicoBag.com - Curb your consumption (http://store.chicobag.com/ - broken link)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy
The CFL's are being forced on us by the radical leftists who want to dictate how we live, and tell us what products we can and can't use.
But the fact is, these bulbs are dangerous to have in our homes (mercury). My Senator (DEMOCRAT, Sherrod Brown) sent me a document telling how to deal with breakage of one of these bulbs. Give me a break! You aren't supposed to just throw these things in the trash. You are supposed to take them somewhere to be disposed of, and it requires a HAZMAT team to clean up. You are supposed to leave the area where the breakage occurred. C'mon folks. These people are becoming gods! They want to tell us how to live.
The responsible thing to do is dispose of them properly, sure. Even with regular incandescent bulbs, there is a protocol for disposal. As for the mercury, don't lick the bulb and you'll be fine .
Gee - we have NO recycling in my area. No recycling bins. No recycling drop off locations - NADA.
As for the CFL bulbs? Won't use them. I have enough of the "real" bulbs to last me until I'm 190 or older.
My nearest neighbor is over a mile away - and I live in the desert. And, it's 20 miles one way to the grocery store so, I don't think I'm walking instead of driving.
The above statement is probably the best argument I've ever read for why we need stronger science education in our high schools. That fact that there are people out there who believe this is very disturbing.
I totally support increased requirements for science and math in schools. We do not teach enought of the "hard" disiplines instead stressing the "soft" curriculum.
Just look at this thread - "Criteria for "living green". There are a lot of soft responses to the question. What is required is a scientific approach to quantifying the crieteria so that a measurement can be made against a specific metric. The measurement must be comprehensive so all variables are taken into consideration.
Unless that is done, we are all just trying to convince ourselves that we are "living green" without really knowing the answer to the question.
The above statement is probably the best argument I've ever read for why we need stronger science education in our high schools. That fact that there are people out there who believe this is very disturbing.
So, you are saying ... what? That these industry scientists, experts in their field, don't know what they are talking about, and you do? So, what are your credentials?
Personally, I have always thought that the theory that oil came from dead dinosaurs was ridiculous! They must have been all over the place, by the billions, and even under the ocean.
Sorry, but that theory makes no sense at all. The belief that the Earth itself produces it, by what ever process, does.
Why would you reject the possibility that oil is constantly being created. Based on what evidence would you reject such a theory? I would sooner trust the people who are in the industry, who have the background. They have been studying oil for many years. And you?
Last edited by nononsenseguy; 08-02-2008 at 06:22 PM..
Reason: Additional comment
I totally support increased requirements for science and math in schools. We do not teach enought of the "hard" disiplines instead stressing the "soft" curriculum.
Just look at this thread - "Criteria for "living green". There are a lot of soft responses to the question. What is required is a scientific approach to quantifying the crieteria so that a measurement can be made against a specific metric. The measurement must be comprehensive so all variables are taken into consideration.
Unless that is done, we are all just trying to convince ourselves that we are "living green" without really knowing the answer to the question.
Say, what?!!! I have no idea what you just said. Sounds like pure gobbledegook to me.
Gee - we have NO recycling in my area. No recycling bins. No recycling drop off locations - NADA.
As for the CFL bulbs? Won't use them. I have enough of the "real" bulbs to last me until I'm 190 or older.
My nearest neighbor is over a mile away - and I live in the desert. And, it's 20 miles one way to the grocery store so, I don't think I'm walking instead of driving.
Say, do you live in Dunmovin? No kidding. When we used to take the back road (395) to Yosemite, though the desert, you go through a place called "Dunmovin". We always thought that was hilarious!
I'm with you on the CFL's, and I'm going to continue to write my Congressman and Senators to get that stupid ban on incandescents repealed. That was asinine.
First, Ethanol can be made with any crop, corn is just being used industrially because our agricultural system is already set up to overproduce it.
Second, the corn used to generate Ethanol is #2 Yellow Corn, which humans in the US do not eat. #2 is used to feed animals (who rightly should be eating grass - not corn) and is processed to create food additives. So Ethanol does not directly reduce the amount or price of food available... but it does make meat more expensive, and reduces the amount of other food grown while farms start to grow even more corn instead of other crops or pasture to feed animals a species appropriate diet.
Third, the problem with commercial Ethanol is not a matter of using food for fuel... it's the fact that it takes twice as much oil to transport and generate enough power to process the corn into Ethanol. 2 gallons of gasoline for one gallon of Ethanol is not an equitable arrangement. We either need to process it locally without transportation fuel, and/or find a better power source for it's processing in order to make it efficient.
Fourth, people are not starving in the world due to lack of food. They are hungry and starving because they can't afford to buy the food or wars/government regimes preclude transfer of food from where it grows to where it's needed. The problem is political and economical...absolutely NOT a lack of food. One of the reasons that people can't afford food in less affluent countries is because we are dumping our artificially cheap over-production into their countries so that their farmers can't make money on their crops... just like what's happening with our own domestic independent farmers. Of course, that may be starting to change as many countries are refusing to import our Genetically Modified foods (grains and animals fed those grains) no matter how cheaply we try to flog it off on them or how hungry they are. Instead of giving them our cast offs, perhaps it would be better to invest in helping them better ways to produce their own food.
Fifth, yes, the Earth is continually generating oil from decaying plant matter from millions of years ago... very small amounts in a very slow process. At the current strata that we are drilling, we are most likely drilling the remnants of Cretaceous forests... so that would be about a period 145-65 million years ago represented in that crude layer. We don't know how many of those years it took to turn the decomposing vegetation into the oil we use today. There is likely to be another layer generating oil from the Paleocene period (65-55 million years ago) and these are likely to be the shallow shale deposits we're all so interested in right now. But we don't know how long the process takes and how much would be created. One thing is certain... it's not getting created as fast as we're using it. For that reason, I would still consider it a "finite" resource and it would be more prudent to wean off that resource and figure out better ways to use the ones that are generated in ample amounts every single day.
When it comes to fuel and food you really have to take a big step back and see how they are interconnected tragically in our country... not through production, but through preparation, transportation and processing. We use petrochemicals as fertilizers and pesticides. We use 1/5 of our oil transporting our food from where it's grown to a central processing location, where we use more oil generating the energy to process it, and then more oil to transport it to all the thousands of supermarkets around the country and world. If we bought our food locally from smaller bio-diverse local farms that grew with natural fertilizers and pest management systems (significantly reduced if you're growing several crops instead of just one or two). Not to mention that buying locally supports your local community and economy and diversifies/distributes the food supply so that it is not as susceptible to bio-terrorism or natural disease as a centralized food supply is.
I cannot stop laughing at Moderator cut: edit your post. Do you really believe all that garbage? Where did you learn such nonsense?
Last edited by riveree; 08-02-2008 at 11:29 PM..
Reason: please be careful with wording, don't make it personal
Personally, I have always thought that the theory that oil came from dead dinosaurs was ridiculous! They must have been all over the place, by the billions, and even under the ocean.
Sorry, but that theory makes no sense at all. The belief that the Earth itself produces it, by what ever process, does.
Oil industry scientists as well as independent scientists have concluded that oil is created through the decomposition of vegetable (primarily algaes in the oceans, but also rain forests on land) and animal matter... that's not even a question and no geological scientist has even postulated a refute of this explanation. The Earth does continue to generate small amounts of oil through metamorphosis of the decomposed hydrocarbons via heat and pressure... but it produces it very slowly.
We have to remember that the oceans and continents were in different places 145 million years ago, and that many areas that were once dry land are now under the oceans, and what was once ocean/sea floor is now on dry land and mountains. So where the vegetation settled isn't necessary where it originally was.
I have a hard time simply accepting the theories of industry scientists because they have a conflict of interest (i.e. their jobs & money depend on finding "evidence" that supports their bosses' goals). However, I do attempt to find additional information from non-partisan scientists that can either confirm or deny. In this case, a good majority of geologists do accept that the Earth will continue to make oil, but nothing like the fields we've already drilled dry... those took tens of millions of years to create. The Earth just can't keep up with our consumption.
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