Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I was wondering, does anyone think that machine room-less (MRL) traction elevators will eventually make hydraulic elevators obsolete? Considering the energy savings they offer over hydraulic (uses about 1/3 the energy) and the fact that they don't require any hydraulic oil, reducing ground pollution, I think they are the best choice for the future.
KONE has had great success with their EcoSpace MRL elevator; it has been so successful, KONE doesn't even make hydraulic elevators anymore. The other three major manufacturers (Otis, ThyssenKrupp, and Schindler) still make hydraulic elevators, but also offer their own MRL products.
We will be getting a few of these elevators (all KONE EcoSpace) at UNM, including at Mitchell Hall, Tamarind Institute, and two new buildings (the School of Education Addition and the Math & Sciences Center).
I was wondering, does anyone think that machine room-less (MRL) traction elevators will eventually make hydraulic elevators obsolete? Considering the energy savings they offer over hydraulic (uses about 1/3 the energy) and the fact that they don't require any hydraulic oil, reducing ground pollution, I think they are the best choice for the future.
.
Not all elevators use hydraulics. Many, even new units, use cables and pulliy systems. Some elevators that DO use hydraulics are using vegitable or canola oil for the environmental reasons you mentioned.
The mechanical closet for the belt driven units really isn't that large. Originally the largest space was used for the switching. Thanks to solid state VLSI controls the big large racks for relays and controls an be the size of a Cable TV converter box!. The motor would then be the biggest space user. Sometimes this motor is mounted on the top of the elevator. Not a major space issue.
Not all elevators use hydraulics. Many, even new units, use cables and pulliy systems. Some elevators that DO use hydraulics are using vegitable or canola oil for the environmental reasons you mentioned.
The mechanical closet for the belt driven units really isn't that large. Originally the largest space was used for the switching. Thanks to solid state VLSI controls the big large racks for relays and controls an be the size of a Cable TV converter box!. The motor would then be the biggest space user. Sometimes this motor is mounted on the top of the elevator. Not a major space issue.
Yes, I know about conventional traction elevators (the cable and pulley system you describe), however, for low-rise buildings, hydraulic elevators have primarily been the norm, especially in North America. Machine room-less traction elevators are supposed to change that, as they can fit into an existing hydraulic hoistway.
Machine room-less traction elevators are supposed to change that, as they can fit into an existing hydraulic hoistway.
Careful there- they don't necessarily fit right into an existing shaft unless you're willing to reduce the cab width a bit in many cases. That said, I think they're definitely the wave of the future, especially as competition starts driving the cost down into reality. When Kone first came out with theirs, they were easily 2-3x the cost of a conventional hydraulic, so it took time for them to gain traction (no put intended). Now that Otis, Thyssen-Krupp, etc., are jumping on the bandwagon, prices are getting closer to where they need to be to avoid having owners go to hydraulics to save money.
Careful there- they don't necessarily fit right into an existing shaft unless you're willing to reduce the cab width a bit in many cases. That said, I think they're definitely the wave of the future, especially as competition starts driving the cost down into reality. When Kone first came out with theirs, they were easily 2-3x the cost of a conventional hydraulic, so it took time for them to gain traction (no put intended). Now that Otis, Thyssen-Krupp, etc., are jumping on the bandwagon, prices are getting closer to where they need to be to avoid having owners go to hydraulics to save money.
I wonder, how successful have the other manufacturers have been with their MRL products? KONE of course has been so successful with the EcoSpace that they don't need to make hydraulic elevators anymore.
However, there has been one incident at a children's hospital in Seattle with a ThyssenKrupp ISIS MRL elevator, where the elevator broke free from its ropes, giving MRL elevators somewhat of a bad rap. The ISIS was unique in the fact that it used Kevlar ropes instead of braided steel. After the incident, ThyssenKrupp required to do a mandatory inspection to all ISIS elevators installed in America. The ISIS was discontinued and replaced by the Synergy MRL elevator in 2008, which is a design more similar to KONE's MRL products.
Sorry to bump, but interestingly, the new Sue Cleveland High School in Rio Rancho is being touted as a "green building". It would be a shame if they went with hydraulic elevators, especially if they are traditional holed hydraulic elevators. I have heard the new elevators being installed there are made by ThyssenKrupp.
As a sales rep with ThyssenKrupp Elevator, I'd frustrated to see such mis-guidedness when it comes to MRL vs. Hydraulic Elevators. Sure, they've got a smaller motor, but if you take a look at Kone's own website, the average savings in energy consumption for a 2 or 3 story building is only about $400-$500 per year. In addition, the maintenance cost of an MRL is about $100 or more per month, depending on the service provider. Many competitors of the Kone EcoSpace exclude the pancake machine from their service contracts because Kone has been known to charge $30,000 for a replacement.
In addition, many hydraulic elevators can travel up to 48' without a jack hole (which, even if it did have a jack hole, it would be 100% sealed from ground soil with PVC casing). You also have the option of using a vegetable-based, 100% biodegradable hydraulic oil.
When deciding what type of elevator to use in your building, you need to look at the whole picture...not just the flashy advertisements. Will the elevator be used continually throughout the day, or just periodically? Do you have low floor to floor heights (< 16') that would negate the need for higher speeds? Who will be the service provider after the unit is installed, and what resources do they have for supporting that type of elevator? Hydraulic elevators are readily supported by ALL elevator manufactures, including many independents.
I will agree with you that MRL's have a prominent position in the future of vertical transportation. However, the hydraulic elevator is NOT the environmental deviant that Kone would lead you to believe, and I'm quite proud to be able to offer it as a cost effective, reliable, and environmentally-friendly alternative to an MRL.
As a sales rep with ThyssenKrupp Elevator, I'd frustrated to see such mis-guidedness when it comes to MRL vs. Hydraulic Elevators. Sure, they've got a smaller motor, but if you take a look at Kone's own website, the average savings in energy consumption for a 2 or 3 story building is only about $400-$500 per year. In addition, the maintenance cost of an MRL is about $100 or more per month, depending on the service provider. Many competitors of the Kone EcoSpace exclude the pancake machine from their service contracts because Kone has been known to charge $30,000 for a replacement.
In addition, many hydraulic elevators can travel up to 48' without a jack hole (which, even if it did have a jack hole, it would be 100% sealed from ground soil with PVC casing). You also have the option of using a vegetable-based, 100% biodegradable hydraulic oil.
When deciding what type of elevator to use in your building, you need to look at the whole picture...not just the flashy advertisements. Will the elevator be used continually throughout the day, or just periodically? Do you have low floor to floor heights (< 16') that would negate the need for higher speeds? Who will be the service provider after the unit is installed, and what resources do they have for supporting that type of elevator? Hydraulic elevators are readily supported by ALL elevator manufactures, including many independents.
I will agree with you that MRL's have a prominent position in the future of vertical transportation. However, the hydraulic elevator is NOT the environmental deviant that Kone would lead you to believe, and I'm quite proud to be able to offer it as a cost effective, reliable, and environmentally-friendly alternative to an MRL.
Well, UNM currently has had a maintenance contract with KONE since 2000, and it was renewed last year for another 8 years up to 2016. I am sure that UNM knows exactly what they are doing here when it comes to specifying MRL elevators over hydraulic.
Anyway, while UNM is specifying MRL elevators in most of their new projects, UNM isn't locking out other manufacturers from providing their MRL solutions. It's just that KONE likely bids lower than the other manufacturers when an MRL is specified. Usually, it isn't UNM who chooses the manufacturer of the elevator; it is usually the building contractor who does. UNM can of course specify the type of elevator whether it is hydraulic, traction, MRL, etc.
BTW, UNM has a ThyssenKrupp ISIS MRL elevator at the Domenici Center for Student Health Sciences Education. I wonder if it has had its K-Core ropes replaced by braided steel. There was a major incident with one of those elevators at a children's hospital in Seattle. The KONE technician calls it the "CRISIS".
Also, UNM has just awarded a contract to McCarthy Building Companies for a new 6-story parking garage. UNM has specified an MRL elevator for this project, however, I am still awaiting response from McCarthy to know who will be the elevator supplier.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
