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One things for certain Greensboro. You know you’ve really *****d the crew off when they start throwing around the inferiority complex comments. You at least share that commonality with the other NC cowtowns, I mean cities. Minus Raleigh of course, because if you didn’t know, they have already proven they are immune by inserting such and such article about their accolades, in a triad sub forum. But yes, it’s your city with the inferiority complex. Welcome to the club!
One things for certain Greensboro. You know you’ve really *****d the crew off when they start throwing around the inferiority complex comments. You at least share that commonality with the other NC cowtowns, I mean cities. Minus Raleigh of course, because if you didn’t know, they have already proven they are immune by inserting such and such article about their accolades, in a triad sub forum. But yes, it’s your city with the inferiority complex. Welcome to the club!
Nobody claims that Greensboro or Winston-Salem has any sort of inferiority complex. I stated in a previous post that both are wonderful cities and I would live in either one. I certainly don't think that all NC cities other than Charlotte are "cow towns".
The Charlotte Observer had a headline article a few months back, proclaiming that Charlotte had recently past San Francisco in population size, making it the 15th biggest city in the USA. Any digging past the headline would make that claim appear to be ridiculous, since the Charlotte metro area is much smaller than San Francisco’s (and Atlanta’s).
I also seem to recall conversations years ago, when many in Charlotte were asking themselves if their city was “world class”. From the outside looking in, yes it does seem that Charlotte has a case of “Atlanta envy”, although I have never understood that. Charlotte is a wonderful city in its own right, and who knows, one day it may be referred to as “Charlotte” instead of “Charlotte, NC”.
To be fair, Raleigh-Durham / RTP has no problem crowing about it being one of the biggest Life Science Hubs in the country, nor comparing itself with other cities like Austin. One difference, however, is that it feels more comfortable in its own skin, and not trying to be like another city or metro.
The Charlotte Observer had a headline article a few months back, proclaiming that Charlotte had recently past San Francisco in population size, making it the 15th biggest city in the USA. Any digging past the headline would make that claim appear to be ridiculous, since the Charlotte metro area is much smaller than San Francisco’s (and Atlanta’s).
I also seem to recall conversations years ago, when many in Charlotte were asking themselves if their city was “world class”. From the outside looking in, yes it does seem that Charlotte has a case of “Atlanta envy”, although I have never understood that. Charlotte is a wonderful city in its own right, and who knows, one day it may be referred to as “Charlotte” instead of “Charlotte, NC”.
To be fair, Raleigh-Durham / RTP has no problem crowing about it being one of the biggest Life Science Hubs in the country, nor comparing itself with other cities like Austin. One difference, however, is that it feels more comfortable in its own skin, and not trying to be like another city or metro.
Actually Raleigh is now a bigger Tech hub than Life Sciences hub, and in that sector we go head-to-head with Austin.
Someone stated that Charlotte is always trying to measure up to Atlanta. I have read that several times on these forums. When someone stated it then it becomes the gospel and others repeat it.
Well I would like to hear some examples of how Charlotte is trying to measure up to Atlanta. I have lived in Charlotte for a long time, and I cannot think of many ways. Sure, both are growing rapidly, but Charlotte can grow without trying to measure up to Atlanta. Both have busy airports, but Charlotte can desire a busy airport to attract jobs without measuring up to Atlanta.
Charlotte is trying to grow differently than Atlanta. It is trying to develop dense walkable neighborhoods near transit to diminish urban sprawl. I don’t think that is trying to emulate Atlanta. Charlotte has not been interested in a domed stadium but Dave Tepper is so a new domed stadium may be in Charlotte’s future. But that does not mean that Charlotte is trying to measure up to Atlanta.
While Atlanta’s murder rate has been quite high for years, Charlotte is working hard to keep its rate down as cm much as possible. And while it is higher than some would like, it is much better than Atlanta’s.
I would say that those not familiar with Charlotte should not confuse Charlotte’s desire to grow, attract high paying jobs, seek sporting events, and other things, as trying measure up to Atlanta. Perhaps these are just Charlotte’s wanting to be the best it can be. That is what most cities want to do- grow and be all they can be. Some are just more successful than others.
Good points. The fact of the matter is that both cities were ambitious for more growth and development since the Civil War ended. While the New South ideology of that time may have originated in Atlanta, it took hold in Charlotte just as strongly; Atlanta simply had a much more advantageous geographical location that fueled greater growth earlier on, first as a rail hub then as an air hub. It's simply easier to see the parallels between both cities' paths being as close and similar as they are in certain key respects.
The Charlotte Observer had a headline article a few months back, proclaiming that Charlotte had recently past San Francisco in population size, making it the 15th biggest city in the USA. Any digging past the headline would make that claim appear to be ridiculous, since the Charlotte metro area is much smaller than San Francisco’s (and Atlanta’s).
This is a very common thing everywhere and is hardly unique to Charlotte. Before the headlines stating that Charlotte had surpassed San Francisco, there were the same ones about San Jose 30 years ago and Columbus, OH last year.Phoenix was crowing about passing Philadelphia in population a few years ago, and Houston is licking its chops at the prospect of surpassing Chicago to be the nation's third-largest city. Huntsville appears to be all but assured of displacing Birmingham as Alabama's largest city by the time the next presidential election rolls around. Heck, the same happened when Wake passed Mecklenburg to become the state's largest county. One could go on and on, but I think we get the point.
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I also seem to recall conversations years ago, when many in Charlotte were asking themselves if their city was “world class”. From the outside looking in, yes it does seem that Charlotte has a case of “Atlanta envy”, although I have never understood that. Charlotte is a wonderful city in its own right, and who knows, one day it may be referred to as “Charlotte” instead of “Charlotte, NC”.
Although obviously closer than Charlotte, even Atlanta's status as a world-class city isn't a completely settled issue in the eyes of all Atlantans. But apparently Atlanta thinks of Toronto as such, although Toronto seems to think it may fall a bit short itself (or did as of 5 years ago).
Metro Atlanta being so close and much larger makes it an easy benchmark of sorts for Charlotte, but really only for the things that are common to bigger places and not things specific to Atlanta. It's simply a reflection of Charlotte's long-held desire to reach true major city status.
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To be fair, Raleigh-Durham / RTP has no problem crowing about it being one of the biggest Life Science Hubs in the country, nor comparing itself with other cities like Austin. One difference, however, is that it feels more comfortable in its own skin, and not trying to be like another city or metro.
That's mainly because of RTP which was a statewide effort that significantly fueled the region's growth. Before that, Raleigh in particular made serious efforts to become a big textile center but that goal didn't really materialize although it managed to land a couple of mills. Durham seemed all but content with its status as a textile and tobacco hub and thus was slower to embrace RTP until the decline of those traditional industries forced it to do so. Seeing as though RTP was conceived as a regional asset, it was built as a greenfield suburban development between Raleigh and Durham/Chapel Hill which was the model at the time for jobs based on commercialized research (e.g., Silicon Valley, I-270 Biotech Corridor in suburban MD, etc). Only in more recent years have central cities began to lure those types jobs in their urban cores. Charlotte, on the other hand, relied on banking for its growth, an industry that values prominence and visibility--hence its preference for office towers in downtowns. And it was the heads of those banks that were pushing for their growth through mergers and acquisitions. Charlotte's growth was mostly the result of ambitious efforts locally which took advantage of deregulation on the state and national levels (the latter of which was pushed for by those local leaders like Hugh McColl).
If Charlotte were simply attempting to become a clone of Atlanta, it wouldn't have developed in a much more centralized way with a downtown CBD that dwarfs any other in its metro in terms of office space, and it would have found a way to build UNCC downtown just like GSU is in downtown Atlanta. Charlotte also has much more expansive city limits so that its airport and other large CBDs (Ballantyne, University City) are within Charlotte itself, with those just across the border in York and Lancaster counties being obvious exceptions. Overall Atlanta has a much more decentralized setup with multiple major CBDs, both inside and outside the city, that creates more balkanization and regional competition. Unfortunately that has prevented downtown Atlanta from developing into the city's premier urban district as it arguably should have. There are other differences between the two on the road to major city status but this is a primary one that sort of sticks out.
There's a difference between Charlotte wanting to become a major city like Atlanta and Charlotte wanting to become another Atlanta. Both being postwar boomtowns in the same region of the country with similar demographic shifts and economic profiles simply invite frequent comparisons between the two.
On the other hand, this state has a few cities that seem to have some sort of inferiority complex going on. It's not just some homers who are constantly hyping up their city, and trying to defend or promote it at every opportunity, but the city leaders also work overtime to make outsiders think their cities are something more than they really are.
I don't blame them; boosterism has absolutely been shown to work (assuming the fact that there's actually something to work with). Atlanta is the premier example with Charlotte and, more recently, Greenville, SC benefitting from such. Every city didn't have the benefit of having a small industrial base so as to not have to deal with future fallout and decline due to deindustrialization, combined with being in
a region with notable universities and having the state lay much of the groundwork for its prosperity and success. In the absence of such, is it possible that local leaders in Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill would have put their heads together and come up with the concept of RTP on their own? Possibly, but I seriously doubt it would've been as early as the 50's which means it wouldn't have had the early advantage it had as far as research parks go and the region wouldn't be as big and prominent as it is now.
I don't blame them; boosterism has absolutely been shown to work (assuming the fact that there's actually something to work with). Atlanta is the premier example with Charlotte and, more recently, Greenville, SC benefitting from such. Every city didn't have the benefit of having a small industrial base so as to not have to deal with future fallout and decline due to deindustrialization, combined with being in
a region with notable universities and having the state lay much of the groundwork for its prosperity and success. In the absence of such, is it possible that local leaders in Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill would have put their heads together and come up with the concept of RTP on their own? Possibly, but I seriously doubt it would've been as early as the 50's which means it wouldn't have had the early advantage it had as far as research parks go and the region wouldn't be as big and prominent as it is now.
That's the key. Basing boosterism on reality and not fantasy.
I don't blame them; boosterism has absolutely been shown to work (assuming the fact that there's actually something to work with). Atlanta is the premier example with Charlotte and, more recently, Greenville, SC benefitting from such. Every city didn't have the benefit of having a small industrial base so as to not have to deal with future fallout and decline due to deindustrialization, combined with being in
a region with notable universities and having the state lay much of the groundwork for its prosperity and success. In the absence of such, is it possible that local leaders in Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill would have put their heads together and come up with the concept of RTP on their own? Possibly, but I seriously doubt it would've been as early as the 50's which means it wouldn't have had the early advantage it had as far as research parks go and the region wouldn't be as big and prominent as it is now.
It’s my understanding that there was already collaboration among the three Triangle universities prior to the formation of the Research Triangle Park concept, so it’s highly possible that some sort of “RTP type” of organization would have been organically created over time without government assistance, particularly given the fact that Duke and UNC are so physically close to each other (11 miles). We will never know because it’s a moot point. The Research Triangle Park that we see today didn’t really begin to take off until IBM decided to put facilities here. The rest was history.
Regarding the “world class city” conversation, I look at that differently than crowing about rapid growth, sports teams etc. Many cities boast about their accomplishments. On the other hand, If you have to ask yourself if your city is “world class” that means that it isn’t. I’ve always viewed Atlanta as a much bigger version of Charlotte and that’s how most of the world sees it as well. That’s not intended to be a snub against either city, because I admire both of them, but neither one would be considered to be “world class”. New York City, San Francisco, Chicago – yes.
It’s my understanding that there was already collaboration among the three Triangle universities prior to the formation of the Research Triangle Park concept, so it’s highly possible that some sort of “RTP type” of organization would have been organically created over time without government assistance, particularly given the fact that Duke and UNC are so physically close to each other (11 miles). We will never know because it’s a moot point. The Research Triangle Park that we see today didn’t really begin to take off until IBM decided to put facilities here. The rest was history.
Regarding the “world class city” conversation, I look at that differently than crowing about rapid growth, sports teams etc. Many cities boast about their accomplishments. On the other hand, If you have to ask yourself if your city is “world class” that means that it isn’t. I’ve always viewed Atlanta as a much bigger version of Charlotte and that’s how most of the world sees it as well. That’s not intended to be a snub against either city, because I admire both of them, but neither one would be considered to be “world class”. New York City, San Francisco, Chicago – yes.
These 3 in particular organically grew into world class cities, unlike with what we see from some cities today that crave to have that status. If a city needs to proactively take steps in order to get to that status, then that city is basically not close to being there.
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