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Corporations have no heart but they sure know who to rip out the hearts of those who pass through their doors.
When I was with Xerox at the corporate headquarters many years ago, my very wise boss mused, "It's strange -- a corporation is made up of nothing but humans, but the net result is less than human." I've been the lawyer for a number of human resource departments, and it's quite true -- a group will cheerfully make absolutely heartless decisions that most of the members of the group would never make on an individual basis. The group takes on a personality of its own, and it's never a kinder, gentler personality. Many employees make the mistake of pouring out their hearts to their "friends" in HR, not realizing that HR departments do not exist to be friends with or friendly to employees.
When I was with Xerox at the corporate headquarters many years ago, my very wise boss mused, "It's strange -- a corporation is made up of nothing but humans, but the net result is less than human." I've been the lawyer for a number of human resource departments, and it's quite true -- a group will cheerfully make absolutely heartless decisions that most of the members of the group would never make on an individual basis. The group takes on a personality of its own, and it's never a kinder, gentler personality. Many employees make the mistake of pouring out their hearts to their "friends" in HR, not realizing that HR departments do not exist to be friends with or friendly to employees.
It isn't just HR that isn't on your team in a big corporation . . . it can be a trusted coworker who knows about your health condition and assists (maybe even unwittingly) with a forced retirement or termination.
There are all sorts of things that can happen that are illegal but who has the finances (or, in the case of someone with a terminal illness - THE TIME) to hire an attorney and fight out a discrimination (or illegal termination) case in the courts.
Just be careful if you or your loved one is dealing with a terminal illness . . . many of us have life insurance policies that we have paid for through our companies and once terminated . . . no more life insurance.
And sadly, there are some things that Medicare doesn't cover . . . so once a person is terminated and loses insurance, they may be losing coverage (and that means out of pocket expenses into the tens of thousands of $$$).
The fall out can be devastating.
What a horrible thing to lose one's spouse and then lose everything else that meant some sort of security within months. . . it can and does happen.
I think having a trusted friend to help make decisions during such an awful period may be the best way to handle things - or a good attorney or CPA. I don't know how folks get through the losses and can still think straight.
Last edited by brokensky; 12-23-2013 at 07:42 PM..
It isn't just HR that isn't on your team in a big corporation . . . it can be a trusted coworker who knows about your health condition and assists (maybe even unwittingly) with a forced retirement or termination.
There are all sorts of things that can happen that are illegal but who has the finances (or, in the case of someone with a terminal illness - THE TIME) to hire an attorney and fight out a discrimination (or illegal termination) case in the courts.
Just be careful if you or your loved one is dealing with a terminal illness . . . many of us have life insurance policies that we have paid for through our companies and once terminated . . . no more life insurance.
And sadly, there are some things that Medicare doesn't cover . . . so once a person is terminated and loses insurance, they may be losing coverage (and that means out of pocket expenses into the tens of thousands of $$$).
The fall out can be devastating.
What a horrible thing to lose one's spouse and then lose everything else that meant some sort of security within months. . . it can and does happen.
I think having a trusted friend to help make decisions during such an awful period may be the best way to handle things - or a good attorney or CPA. I don't know how folks get through the losses and can still think straight.
COBRA does give you 18 months of continued coverage after termination, provided you pay all the premiums yourself -- expensive, but not nearly as expensive as the out-of-pocket expense of the last stages of a terminal illness.
I must say, my local government employer was fantastically supportive when my wife was dying. I worked half-days for months with no squawking from anyone. But I did have the advantage of being part of management and of being able to stay on top of my workload pretty easily while working half-days.
Most of the time, trying to turn the situation into a legal battle is only going to add to the stress and ultimately prove to be a waste of time and money. In the vast majority of cases, what the employer did may seem inhuman but isn't going to provide the basis for a valid claim. It's too bad that the laws aren't more focused on helpless people in dire circumstances. Of course, "helpless people in dire circumstances" don't have a lot of clout to lobby for new laws! Even the Age Discrimination in Employment Act has been so watered-down by the courts that it affords little protection. Based on my experience, age discrimination is probably the most prevalent form of discrimination in today's workplace, but the law is much more favorable if you are alleging almost any other type of discrimination (race, gender, religion, etc.).
COBRA does give you 18 months of continued coverage after termination, provided you pay all the premiums yourself -- expensive, but not nearly as expensive as the out-of-pocket expense of the last stages of a terminal illness.
I must say, my local government employer was fantastically supportive when my wife was dying. I worked half-days for months with no squawking from anyone. But I did have the advantage of being part of management and of being able to stay on top of my workload pretty easily while working half-days.
Most of the time, trying to turn the situation into a legal battle is only going to add to the stress and ultimately prove to be a waste of time and money. In the vast majority of cases, what the employer did may seem inhuman but isn't going to provide the basis for a valid claim. It's too bad that the laws aren't more focused on helpless people in dire circumstances. Of course, "helpless people in dire circumstances" don't have a lot of clout to lobby for new laws! Even the Age Discrimination in Employment Act has been so watered-down by the courts that it affords little protection. Based on my experience, age discrimination is probably the most prevalent form of discrimination in today's workplace, but the law is much more favorable if you are alleging almost any other type of discrimination (race, gender, religion, etc.).
All valid observations.
From the experiences of my friends and family, it seems that smaller companies are often more compassionate about leave time, but that is all anecdotal. Maybe the bigger the company, the more impersonal . . .
I think it is easier (psychologically) for managers to terminate (for whatever specious reason) folks when they are near retirement age. It is sad to think that when people are dealing with terminal or chronic illness and still have performed above expected standards that management would have so little concern -- whether the time taken off is by caretakers or the person dealing with an illness.
When my sister's husband was killed in an freak work-related accident, she luckily had a family member who is an attorney and was able to fight to get her a small (but financially helpful) workman's comp settlement. She would have never thought to pursue such a matter . . . she looks back and is so grateful that someone stepped in, asked questions and pursued a settlement on her behalf. She was in shock, remained in shock for months. In the years since, she has stated she does not even remember anything at all about the first several months after her husband's death . . . does not even remember discussing anything about a settlement with anyone . . . She completely closed down.
Having someone that can be relied on to guide and help with decision-making seems to often be quite meaningful in negotiating the aftermath when we lose a loved one.
I'm just tossing this out for what it's worth: I lost my wife of 33 years to breast cancer eight years ago. An acquaintance -- not really even a close friend -- who was an appellate court judge said: "Don't make any important decisions for a year. Don't sell your house, change your job, buy a Porsche, start dating, or make any other important decisions. You may believe you're thinking clearly, but you're not." I actually thought I was coping fantastically -- but when I looked back after a year, I realized I had made some completely idiotic, out-of-character decisions. Fortunately, they were all minor mistakes because my acquaintance's advice kept ringing in my ears. I wasn't thinking clearly, even though I had absolutely thought I was, and could easily have made a major blunder.
VB, thank you for starting an interesting thread.
Odds are I will be a widower soon. Bride of nearly four decades is terminally ill. I've talked to people who have been through the same thing you've been through, and invariably they say that the first year is a blur, a blank, a lost year. Most of my time is spent making the most of the day, each day that we have together, caretaking. But I do spend 2% of my time thinking about "after." And the "one year rule" features prominently in my planning. Thanks again.
Odds are I will be a widower soon. Bride of nearly four decades is terminally ill. I've talked to people who have been through the same thing you've been through, and invariably they say that the first year is a blur, a blank, a lost year. Most of my time is spent making the most of the day, each day that we have together, caretaking. But I do spend 2% of my time thinking about "after." And the "one year rule" features prominently in my planning. Thanks again.
I am in the same situation and thankful for the advice.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longnecker
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Marcy..I am sure dealing with the cancer was not easy for you or your Dad. It does not seem like they were a cold heartless corporation. I did not see that they reduced your Dad's pay or benefits as they took away responsibilities and office size.They allowed him to retire with health insurance and life insurance. A lot of companies would have found an excuse to get rid of him.
He had been with the company for over 40 years, since he was 24, right out of college (interrupted by WWII). That was when you started with a company until you turned 65 and got a gold watch. He'd been in their advertising department and worked his way up to Senior Vice President of Advertising and Marketing with the big corner office and a commanding view of the Front Range of Colorado, until the end when he had a cubicle back by the men's room. They humiliated him. He was offered a retirement "window" which was about 1/4 of what he would have received had he stayed until he was 67 or 70. He didn't get that much. He lost a lot of his pension (or annuities?) something, anyway, due to cashing them in early; his health insurance was cut to bare bones for which he paid 1/2, and his life insurance was all they didn't reduce or remove. He really was treated badly, and many of his co-workers who had been with the company as long as he had held many fund raisers to cover his medical expenses. It was humilitating for him to go from an upper six figure salary to having friends throw fund-raisers because your medical expenses ate up all your savings.
Wow, Marcy, I am so sorry about how your father was treated. That saddens me. Great that he had friends that were loving and caring for him. Hugs to you, Marcy.
Odds are I will be a widower soon. Bride of nearly four decades is terminally ill. I've talked to people who have been through the same thing you've been through, and invariably they say that the first year is a blur, a blank, a lost year. Most of my time is spent making the most of the day, each day that we have together, caretaking. But I do spend 2% of my time thinking about "after." And the "one year rule" features prominently in my planning. Thanks again.
Grief and Mourning in my case is not about death. I lost a great marriage of 35 years to a severe depression on her behalf which she fought on and off for 15 years. She finally convinced herself she needed to leave the marriage to save herself from her deep dark hole.
I think at times it would have been easier if there was a death and a finality so I could understand and recover. I did do the 1 year no decision rule and have started dating recently. At 60 I don't see myself getting married again, I do enjoy the freedom.
My grief continues because she was the love of my life and is still here. I've worked very hard to maintain a good friendship and stay in touch which may be the wrong thing to do.
Funny how life works out.
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