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Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 38,774,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch
FWIW this is not what "hang-fire" is usually called - what you have is a rifle that fires when you take the safety off, usually what happens is someone pulls the trigger against the safety, maybe the trigger has been "tuned" by someone who does not really know how to do it, maybe a few come out of the factory like this - anyway to shoot yourself with your own rifle requires some pretty squirrely gun-handling, or maybe a really freak fall with dropping the rifle.
The M700 type safety IIRC blocks the trigger, as opposed to the Mauser type that actually locks the striker back and takes it off the sear. Trigger-blocking safeties are not as rugged and positive as the ones that block the striker.
A true "hang-fire" is when the striker or hammer falls, but the primer does not go off immediately, only a second or two later. This can be a defective primer (rare), defective factory load (very rare), primer not fully seated on a hand load (less rare) or lightened striker springs, hammer springs, and/or light metal strikers (titanium, usually) that have been installed in an attempt to reduce trigger pull weight, and/or lock time.
Given safe gun handling, nothing worse than shooting a hole in the floorboard of a pickup should ever come of such a discharge. But I'm sorry for your loss anyway.
I used "hang fire" a bit loosely, the accident allegedly involved what I would call "delayed (or maybe obstructed) trigger lock". There's a clip in the link above of a SWAT sniper having a very similar experience, only no one dies. The decedent supposedly experienced what he assumed was a misfire, passed the rifle to it's owner in the passenger's seat and as soon as the owner touched the stock or the bolt the round was discharged. I agree that squirrely handling was undeniably a factor, but the point of the thread was to see if anyone else had experienced anything like this since I'm not very interested in a rifle that is prone (even relatively prone) to unintentional discharge regardless of how iron-clad my muzzle discipline may or may not be.
It wasn't really someone I knew, just a handshake at a wedding a long time ago. I don't know if the rifle had been altered in any way and don't know anything about the owner who was in the passenger's seat, just heard a second-hand recital of his recollection of the events.
What would it take to get people to park the damn truck and get out and hunt on their hind legs like a man?!
FWIW I have an old Winchester bolt-action .22 with a safety roughly similar to the M700, if you give the trigger a good pull with the safety on, then put the safety off, it will frequently fire. Not sure if this is due to wear or someone in the past trying to lighten the trigger. So long as I am the only one shooting it, it's not a problem, but I wouldn't give it to a kid as a first rifle.
I think in answer to your original question, it's a known issue with the M700. Interestingly the Ruger M77 has a similar safety setup, mechanically, but I have not heard of it giving any problems. Go figure.
Has anyone here ever experienced an accidental discharge with a Remington 700 due to disengaging the safety, slapping the bolt or experienced a hang fire?
Hmmm, not with my 700, but, I did have an unintentional discharge with my 788 once on closing the bolt. It has not happened since in many hundreds of rounds fired, so, I'm thinking I had a finger in an inappropriate place when the incident in question happened, though I do not recall doing so, I'm going to take the fall for it and be thankful I was following all the other rules when I chambered that round.
The 788 is I believe an entirely different action. I think its rear locking even.
Oh quite. Totally differnt critterosaurus to be sure...sides both being Remington products. The 700 is and always has been the flagship of the Rem line while the 788 was a rather short lived (but cultishly popular) digression in design. Seems to me this 'hang fire' or unintentional discharge issue with the 700 has been creeping about for a while with a number of dissatisfied buyers asserting faulty design in the 700. I've never had any issue at all with my 700 06 in many hundreds of rounds fired and only used my aforementioned 'problem' with my 788 for conversational musing. My 700 is currently undergoing a bit of surgery, not needed, but fun. I had toyed with the idea of re-barreling and turning it into a long action .308 thus making my ammo requirements a bit less broad, as I have scads of .308 lying about and not so much .06. Not gonna happen tho. A guy needs an .06 in the safe.
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber
Oh quite. Totally differnt critterosaurus to be sure...sides both being Remington products. The 700 is and always has been the flagship of the Rem line while the 788 was a rather short lived (but cultishly popular) digression in design. Seems to me this 'hang fire' or unintentional discharge issue with the 700 has been creeping about for a while with a number of dissatisfied buyers asserting faulty design in the 700. I've never had any issue at all with my 700 06 in many hundreds of rounds fired and only used my aforementioned 'problem' with my 788 for conversational musing. My 700 is currently undergoing a bit of surgery, not needed, but fun. I had toyed with the idea of re-barreling and turning it into a long action .308 thus making my ammo requirements a bit less broad, as I have scads of .308 lying about and not so much .06. Not gonna happen tho. A guy needs an .06 in the safe.
Even though the performance is essentially identical in the -06 and the .308, I look at it just like you. Hard to get rid of one.
It's interesting that you say you were considering making it into a long action .308. That's essentially the difference between the Army M24 and the Marine Corps M40; the M24 is a long action .308 whereas the M40 is a short action. I think the idea was ostensibly to be able to convert any M24 to a 30 cal magnum or to .30-06 with minimal expenditure.
Even though the performance is essentially identical in the -06 and the .308, I look at it just like you. Hard to get rid of one.
It's interesting that you say you were considering making it into a long action .308. That's essentially the difference between the Army M24 and the Marine Corps M40; the M24 is a long action .308 whereas the M40 is a short action. I think the idea was ostensibly to be able to convert any M24 to a 30 cal magnum or to .30-06 with minimal expenditure.
Minimal expenduture was the key reason the part wasn't changed out decades ago. I believe either CBS, CNN, or HBO did a documentary on the hang-fire deaths resulting from the original Rem 700 design a year or so ago. They interviewed a Remington factory gunsmith who had long since retired and was in his 90's. Should be able to find it on youtube with a little effort.
IIRC there have been a number of limited recalls and the current model parts have been modified so that this is no longer a problem. There are 50+ year's worth of Remington 700's that do have this problem.
That said, if one follows the basic rules of gun safety and keeps the muzzle always pointed in a safe direction, an injury or death should never occur even due to this mechanical failure.
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 38,774,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal
Minimal expenduture was the key reason the part wasn't changed out decades ago. I believe either CBS, CNN, or HBO did a documentary on the hang-fire deaths resulting from the original Rem 700 design a year or so ago. They interviewed a Remington factory gunsmith who had long since retired and was in his 90's. Should be able to find it on youtube with a little effort.
IIRC there have been a number of limited recalls and the current model parts have been modified so that this is no longer a problem. There are 50+ year's worth of Remington 700's that do have this problem.
That said, if one follows the basic rules of gun safety and keeps the muzzle always pointed in a safe direction, an injury or death should never occur even due to this mechanical failure.
Indisputable. I've been within 5' of an accidental .30-06 discharge indoors, which is extremely unpleasant. While the discharge was the direct result of at least two layers of handling failure, there was no injury to the shooter or the bystanders because the shooter's muzzle discipline had been hardwired.
That said, it's just really hard for me to hold a rifle in high-esteem if I have a legitimate reason to worry about the pin striking the primer as a result of anything other than a trigger squeeze.
Hmmm, not with my 700, but, I did have an unintentional discharge with my 788 once on closing the bolt. It has not happened since in many hundreds of rounds fired, so, I'm thinking I had a finger in an inappropriate place when the incident in question happened, though I do not recall doing so, I'm going to take the fall for it and be thankful I was following all the other rules when I chambered that round.
I have a heavy barrel Rem #700 chambered in .22-250 that did this one time. I wrote the experience off thinking I must have accidentally brushed the trigger with my fingers while closing the bolt. Just seemed odd... I had never done that before.... Hmmmm......
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I've never had any issue at all with my 700 06 in many hundreds of rounds fired and only used my aforementioned 'problem' with my 788 for conversational musing. My 700 is currently undergoing a bit of surgery, not needed, but fun. I had toyed with the idea of re-barreling and turning it into a long action .308 thus making my ammo requirements a bit less broad, as I have scads of .308 lying about and not so much .06
. Not gonna happen tho. A guy needs an .06 in the safe.
