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We have had some interesting times lately in load work up for 45ACP. I had been using the same load for close to 20 years in my 1911, 5.1 of 231 under a 200 gr lswc. This load shoots one hole groups in my 1911 and has won me one or two dusty boxes full of trophies so I stuck with it. 231 was also a solid performer in my 45 LCs with 200 gr pills.
My son recently picked up a SW 625 in 45 ACP do we naturally went with 231 under a 200 gr plated and cast bullet...hmmm..not.so good. Never have seen 231 run dirty, but it does in this gun.Yuck!
He wants to work up a light target load for steel shooting so we are now playing with Bullseye and Red Dot. I have used Red Dot for years in my Colts ...almost exclusively actually, never used it much in ACP since the loads I tried didn't work to great in the 1911...accuracy wise was so so. The revolver seems to really like this powder though. Just as in the LCs it works great for lo vel target stuff in the 625. Interesting since autos tend to like quick burners and it don't get.much faster than Red Dot.
Odd how 231 don't dirty up my big Colts but gums hell out of the 625. one would think the cavernous case of the Colt would do this before the shorter ACP. Any thoughts???
An 45ACP in an auto will have a higher pressure between the chamber and muzzle than a revolver between the forcing cone and the muzzle (because the cylinder doesn't have an airtight seal against the forcing cone). In the auto you're probably blowing out the fouling behind your SWC because of the higher pressure, that probably isn't happening in the 625. (NOTE: I say probably, since I don't know for sure, I've experienced fouling caused by hot loads, and by light loads).
You could experiment with something a little heavier Winnie 231 book max loading is 5.6gr in 45ACP and a 200gr LSWC and see whether that helps.
Or if you feel uncomfortable doing that drop your current load a half a grain and see whether that increases fouling in your 1911.
If you're using Winnie 231 for your 45 Colt, I expect you load them according to Colt loads, not ACP loads, so they're going to be between a 5.9gr and 8.0gr standard data loading, so they'll be correct for firing in the Colt 45 revolvers you have.
BTW Win 231 does have a bit of a rep for being a dirtier powder.
Hmmmm food for thought. Lol...thought after 25 years of playing with ye ol ACP I had things thought out. Well I do...for a 1911 or my 1911 anyway.
Unique was always my dirty problem child. Looks like Red Dot is going to work for what the kid is looking to do...which is just great since I keep lots on hand anyway. Bullseye has promise too. Ain't never tried Tite Group and such though I have been told they are good powders. I tend to find what works for what im doing and plant it.
I tend to find what works for what im doing and plant it.
So do we all...
I've found Bullseye to be much worse than W231 or Titegroup, for cleanliness in handgun loads; Hodgdon Clays is about the cleanest I've seen. However it depends on your load, any lubrication of the bullet, and a million other things.
However my perspective is that it takes the same length of time to clean a gun if it's been firing black powder, as it does if it's been firing the cleanest powder. If it isn't affecting accuracy and I can still clearly see the target through the smoke I don't really care.
I've found Bullseye to be much worse than W231 or Titegroup, for cleanliness in handgun loads; Hodgdon Clays is about the cleanest I've seen. However it depends on your load, any lubrication of the bullet, and a million other things.
However my perspective is that it takes the same length of time to clean a gun if it's been firing black powder, as it does if it's been firing the cleanest powder. If it isn't affecting accuracy and I can still clearly see the target through the smoke I don't really care.
Hmmm you found Bullseye dirty? Never had that issue. 231 never ran dirty for me either till the 625 and Red Dot has always been a good burner. 6.6 under a 255 is a tack driver in my 45 Colt. Ya know...I have been using different primers...duhhh. Using PMCs whereas I always used WW before. Damn primer shortage!!! That might be it though these primers seem to work just fine. They even run in my tuned Smiths.
Hmmm you found Bullseye dirty? Never had that issue. 231 never ran dirty for me either till the 625 and Red Dot has always been a good burner. 6.6 under a 255 is a tack driver in my 45 Colt. Ya know...I have been using different primers...duhhh. Using PMCs whereas I always used WW before. Damn primer shortage!!! That might be it though these primers seem to work just fine. They even run in my tuned Smiths.
Not dirty per se, just dirtier than W231, Titegroup, or Clays but I reload for half a dozen handgun calibers, and about the same rifle calibers too, I've got custom loadings for them all, and have spent a lot of time with a chrono, a benchrest and some sandbags in the range, working up loadings.
Primers could be the problem, it's one of the million things that could be causing increased fouling, my money still goes on the lower pressure in the revolver barrel . Primers are all different between manufacturers, I've changed primers, and needed to change the powder charge before to retain the same velocities, because that different brand didn't ignite the same way as the other brand, or wasn't as hot, or was hotter.
You having a primer shortage? Midway has WLP's in stock. If they have them in stock there shouldn't be an issue. Most of the guys I know are getting primers no problem (although the price has increased, go figure). Wasn't the same in 2008-2009 I've been able to pick up a mixed case (25k primers in 5k blocks of varying types) consistently for about a year (although I do get them from a family ammo manufacturer no shipping primers to AK through normal channels).
I think if I live up in remote (and lovely, BTW...) AK I'd be putting away about 50k primers, and enough powder & boolitz and brass (some of it buried in a sealed PVC pipe container) to last me for, well, whatever I calculate I'll use, under all sorts of potential circumstances, for the rest of my productive life.
After all, none of it will be getting ANY cheaper from now on, and our Gov'mint could essentially bring handloading to it's knees by strangling off the easiest component to limit, both price- and size/volume-wise: i.e.: primers.
As an FFL and local gunsmith, I've seen it ALL go up and up in price over the past 2 - 3 years. I still have primers I bought a mere 4 years ago that say $7.99 on the brick box, retail, for CCI 200s. HaHaHa! Lookit 'em now, huh? I'd bet they will be @ $50/brick in about 18-24 months.
"Attention Handloaders: Unfortunately (snicker...) we have to temporarily limit the sale of all primers due to our latest involvement in Nigeria/Libya/Somalia/Iran/Afghanistan/Pajkistan/S. Carolina.... you name it.. We need all those primers for our military's use and our future ammunition production security! Trust Us!!!]"
Signed, with love and our deepest affection and concern...:(cough...) Barak Obama & Hillary Clinton
I think if I live up in remote (and lovely, BTW...) AK I'd be putting away about 50k primers, and enough powder & boolitz and brass (some of it buried in a sealed PVC pipe container) to last me for, well, whatever I calculate I'll use, under all sorts of potential circumstances, for the rest of my productive life.
Who said I haven't... I just mentioned I've been able to pick up a 25k mixed case as needed for about a year.
Yeah components have been going up for many years, powder shortages, primer shortages, brass shortages. Every time the shortage is over (or there's a threat of a shortage) the price goes up between 10-25%. The only "benefit" is ammunition prices keep climbing too, so reloading is still cheaper than buying finished ammo.
Not dirty per se, just dirtier than W231, Titegroup, or Clays but I reload for half a dozen handgun calibers, and about the same rifle calibers too, I've got custom loadings for them all, and have spent a lot of time with a chrono, a benchrest and some sandbags in the range, working up loadings.
Primers could be the problem, it's one of the million things that could be causing increased fouling, my money still goes on the lower pressure in the revolver barrel . Primers are all different between manufacturers, I've changed primers, and needed to change the powder charge before to retain the same velocities, because that different brand didn't ignite the same way as the other brand, or wasn't as hot, or was hotter.
You having a primer shortage? Midway has WLP's in stock. If they have them in stock there shouldn't be an issue. Most of the guys I know are getting primers no problem (although the price has increased, go figure). Wasn't the same in 2008-2009 I've been able to pick up a mixed case (25k primers in 5k blocks of varying types) consistently for about a year (although I do get them from a family ammo manufacturer no shipping primers to AK through normal channels).
I bought those during the shortage. Came across them in bulk and bought 20000 of em' for 350 bucks. Couldn't turn that down when times were good.
Im liking the chamber/forcing cone relationship theory as well.
We have had some interesting times lately in load work up for 45ACP. I had been using the same load for close to 20 years in my 1911, 5.1 of 231 under a 200 gr lswc. This load shoots one hole groups in my 1911 and has won me one or two dusty boxes full of trophies so I stuck with it. 231 was also a solid performer in my 45 LCs with 200 gr pills.
My son recently picked up a SW 625 in 45 ACP do we naturally went with 231 under a 200 gr plated and cast bullet...hmmm..not.so good. Never have seen 231 run dirty, but it does in this gun.Yuck!
He wants to work up a light target load for steel shooting so we are now playing with Bullseye and Red Dot. I have used Red Dot for years in my Colts ...almost exclusively actually, never used it much in ACP since the loads I tried didn't work to great in the 1911...accuracy wise was so so. The revolver seems to really like this powder though. Just as in the LCs it works great for lo vel target stuff in the 625. Interesting since autos tend to like quick burners and it don't get.much faster than Red Dot.
Odd how 231 don't dirty up my big Colts but gums hell out of the 625. one would think the cavernous case of the Colt would do this before the shorter ACP. Any thoughts???
A general comment is that as a rule, Colts have smaller bore diameters than Smiths.
Something that's easy to check is see how well the bullet fits in the ball seat at the front of the cylinder. If a bullet will drop through by gravity, you can just about forget about it giving any real accuracy.
That said, Smith has got more with the program lately and they are not as loose-bored as they were a few decades ago.
I have read that in a cartridge like a .45 ACP the powder burn is done before the bullet leaves the case - not sure if that's right or not, but if it is, only the fit of the bullet in the ball seat would matter to powder burn, the cylinder gap would not do anything (I know, I have seen flames come out the cylinder gap, but the claim is this is just hot gas, the powder has already burnt out.)
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one would think the cavernous case of the Colt would do this before the shorter ACP. Any thoughts???
. Primers are all different between manufacturers, I've changed primers, and needed to change the powder charge before to retain the same velocities, because that different brand didn't ignite the same way as the other brand, or wasn't as hot, or was hotter. 
