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...from Switzerland, where all able-bodied young people have to participate in mandatory firearms training, and they form the basis of an all-volunteer civilian army, if anyone attempts to invade.
They all take these fully automatic FNs and M4s home.
Interesting, and the level of civilian crime is quite low. After all, would YOU hold up this coffee bar?
very true, the original op was about ccw..it turned into the damnation of gun laws against the law abiding in california.
ery few states in the USA give their citizens alot of rights concerning firearms.
it seems that politicians are always thinking that if they ban firearms for the law abiding citizen, it will get rid of the gun problem. it just goes to show that they are completely wrong.
Exactly my point , and since it came up lets examine .50 bmg and specifically the Barrett rifles.
How many of ya have ever actually seen and fired one? How many have any ACTUAL idea of the SIZE?
Now bring forth and show us all a *crime* wherein a .50 bmg chambered weapon was utilised within the USA?
An 82A1 weighs a *minimum* of 29 lbs , pre-glass with a 20 inch , the 29 inch barrel unit are 32 lbs. A Model 99 ( single shot) is 25 lbs in 32 inch and 23 in 29 inch. The M107A1 is from 27 lbs to just under 29 lbs.
Thus making any mention of a Barrett or for that matter *ANY* other weapon chambered in .50 bmg a MOOT point. These ARE NOT a CCW weapon .
It's yet another sensationalised Red Herring often tossed about by the anti-firearms crowd.
Ummm... talk about the diversionary tactics (well, yours)... The title of this thread is "What should people be allowed to possess"..... I started this thread. Don't really care what the rules for the Republick of Kalifornia are... stick to the topic. Personally, I don't care what the individual states think. The Bill of Rights should trump all of them.
JMHO.
You'll get NOWHERE with me by pompously ordering me about. Take that to the bank ,and quite frankly I'll say what I damned well please to say irrespective of your control-freak wishes.
And insofar as it goes *I* know whereof I speak as regards firearms , somehow I rather doubt that you DO.
Now if you wish to prove differently , feel free to try. Why don't you start with that .50 bmg since ya know so much , I mean it should be REAL easy for a " Firearms Guru" such as yourself to detail exactly how and what .50 bmg is loaded with and for........ hey what's the OAL when loaded specifically for an 82A1? Muzzle velocity? Velocity at 100 ,300 , 500 , 1000 , 1500 , 2000 yards , at WHAT average distance do most of the .50 BMG loadings go subsonic?
You decided to jump in the pool on this , infortunately for you , you're a guppie that just decided to take on a Shark.
I don't deal in hyperbole , nebulous opinion and sensationalism when it comes to firearms.I deal only in FACTS.
And the FACT is that you're quite illinformed on the subject , ya got called on it and now you're crawfishing and jumping in an effort to cover your lack of hard information on the subject that you have set yourself up as an expert on.
Exactly my point , and since it came up lets examine .50 bmg and specifically the Barrett rifles.
How many of ya have ever actually seen and fired one? How many have any ACTUAL idea of the SIZE?
Now bring forth and show us all a *crime* wherein a .50 bmg chambered weapon was utilised within the USA?
An 82A1 weighs a *minimum* of 29 lbs , pre-glass with a 20 inch , the 29 inch barrel unit are 32 lbs. A Model 99 ( single shot) is 25 lbs in 32 inch and 23 in 29 inch. The M107A1 is from 27 lbs to just under 29 lbs.
Thus making any mention of a Barrett or for that matter *ANY* other weapon chambered in .50 bmg a MOOT point. These ARE NOT a CCW weapon .
It's yet another sensationalised Red Herring often tossed about by the anti-firearms crowd.
since you brought it up. I own 2 Barrett 50 caliber rifles. the M107A1 and the M95. I love them both and shoot about 1000 rounds through them each year.
yes they are not CCW weapons, but they are still useful to have around, especially when i have to reach out and touch something.
with a normal 647 grain bullet from a .50 Barrett semi-automatic rifle. the 50 caliber goes subsonic around 1750 yards, 2.6 seconds out from point of firing.
buttet is a FMJ-BT with 256 gr. of V-20N29 Vihtavuori powder, muzzle velocity is a bit over 3000fps.
best I could do with the tables i have on hand.
Last edited by monkeywrenching; 06-07-2012 at 04:11 AM..
MW,
Out of curiosity, what exactly do you need to "reach out and touch." NOTE: I am not asking this because I do not believe people should own ordnance such as the Barrett rifles in .50bmg. I am VERY pro-gun rights. I have always wondered what people use those things for, though. They are not cheap, and as far as rifles go, are not the most practical. Do you own yours...just because? If so, that's a perfectly acceptable answer as far as I'm concerned. I'm just curious.
Exactly my point , and since it came up lets examine .50 bmg and specifically the Barrett rifles.
How many of ya have ever actually seen and fired one? How many have any ACTUAL idea of the SIZE?
Well, I have a bunch of them, in my safes. I learned not to leave anything on the firing bench, as it all gets blown off from the discharge from the muzzle brake. They are big and heavy. Granted. Though my M2A1 is not exactly light, and the belted ammo is really heavy.
Now bring forth and show us all a *crime* wherein a .50 bmg chambered weapon was utilised within the USA?
They were design as sniper rifles.... You can't exactly hold up a 7-11 with one, reasonably.
An 82A1 weighs a *minimum* of 29 lbs , pre-glass with a 20 inch , the 29 inch barrel unit are 32 lbs. A Model 99 ( single shot) is 25 lbs in 32 inch and 23 in 29 inch. The M107A1 is from 27 lbs to just under 29 lbs.
The point being? (though my M60 only weighs about 24lbs)
Thus making any mention of a Barrett or for that matter *ANY* other weapon chambered in .50 bmg a MOOT point. These ARE NOT a CCW weapon .
Absolutely agree. This is not a thread about CCW.
It's yet another sensationalised Red Herring often tossed about by the anti-firearms crowd.
You'll get NOWHERE with me by pompously ordering me about. Take that to the bank ,and quite frankly I'll say what I damned well please to say irrespective of your control-freak wishes.
I can't tell anyone what to do on this thread... this is a public forum. I am just suggesting that we keep to the topic of the title of this thread. Simple enough. Moderator please chime in.
And insofar as it goes *I* know whereof I speak as regards firearms , somehow I rather doubt that you DO.
You are correct. I know nothing about them. I just have stacks of guns, reload all my own ammo (go Dillon!), shoot thousands of rounds a year, and will I see you at Knob Creek?
Now if you wish to prove differently , feel free to try. Why don't you start with that .50 bmg since ya know so much , I mean it should be REAL easy for a " Firearms Guru" such as yourself to detail exactly how and what .50 bmg is loaded with and for........ hey what's the OAL when loaded specifically for an 82A1? Muzzle velocity? Velocity at 100 ,300 , 500 , 1000 , 1500 , 2000 yards , at WHAT average distance do most of the .50 BMG loadings go subsonic?
This all comes out of the books... must I labor all the other posters with such trivial information? I think it would bore them, and it is boring me. I never claimed 'I know so much'. As a (former) engineer, I just read, follow the processes, and produce the end result. I just shoot holes in paper, with really expensive guns (my favorite is my MP5 auto). Don't get your panties all in a bunch. Geez.
You decided to jump in the pool on this , infortunately for you , you're a guppie that just decided to take on a Shark.
I do not understand the animosity here, at all.
I don't deal in hyperbole , nebulous opinion and sensationalism when it comes to firearms.I deal only in FACTS.
You are talking to someone that only deals in facts, if you didn't realize. Many years at the 'tute' in Cambridge MA drove that into me.
And the FACT is that you're quite illinformed on the subject , ya got called on it and now you're crawfishing and jumping in an effort to cover your lack of hard information on the subject that you have set yourself up as an expert on.
I NEVER said I was an expert on anything. My motto is "Everyone is my superior, in that I may learn from them". It has been my motto for over 2 decades. Again, what's with the animosity?
MW,
Out of curiosity, what exactly do you need to "reach out and touch." NOTE: I am not asking this because I do not believe people should own ordnance such as the Barrett rifles in .50bmg. I am VERY pro-gun rights. I have always wondered what people use those things for, though. They are not cheap, and as far as rifles go, are not the most practical. Do you own yours...just because? If so, that's a perfectly acceptable answer as far as I'm concerned. I'm just curious.
I own both off my Barretts. I also own them because I can. try looking at the Barrett site sometime. Barrett has stated numerous times that if any state or the federal goverment stops letting its citizens own & shoot his rifles, that state or the federal goverment shall not get anymore of his rifles.
without the civilian populace, most firearm makers would go out of business.
my front gate it a bit over 900 yards from my front door, and i like to be able to hit the targets set up out there as well, whether they be paper or flesh
I own both off my Barretts. I also own them because I can. try looking at the Barrett site sometime. Barrett has stated numerous times that if any state or the federal goverment stops letting its citizens own & shoot his rifles, that state or the federal goverment shall not get anymore of his rifles.
without the civilian populace, most firearm makers would go out of business.
my front gate it a bit over 900 yards from my front door, and i like to be able to hit the targets set up out there as well, whether they be paper or flesh
Yes! Finally someone with common sense.
I own a lot of really nasty stuff, and own most of it is because I CAN.
Hey, when I am back in the states, let's go fire my 6-pounders. Great for waking people up really far away.
900 yards takes a lot of practice... Our range was only 600 yards. The bullet drop is a lot...
I love guns and shooting but when some nut goes out and starts to shoot people like the idiot in AZ did a year and a half ago, then I can understand why people are anti gun.
I think that being "anti gun" is misdirected. A gun is an inanimate object that does only what its user directs. People have used cars to kill others. Should we be "anti car?" Or what about that whack job in Florida who attacked the homeless man and bit his face off? Should we now be "anti teeth?" You see, a gun is simply a tool, same as any thing else that mankind has made. Tools are designed for a specific purpose and you often have to use them right. A gun requires responsible use, but irresponsible use is the fault of the user and not the tool itself.
Those who wish to curb gun ownership rights (READ: defy the 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution) are treating a symptom and ignoring the disease. Anti gun laws only restrict those who use guns responsibly and legally. It does not serve to avoid gun-related crime because the vast majority of gun related crimes involve guns that are obtained illegally. Making more laws does will not result in criminals suddenly changing their ways. It may even make it worse.
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