Hampton Roads - why such low speed limits on freeways? (dangerous, legal)

[The Dissenter]

Originally Posted by cb at sea

There are too many vehicles for super high speeds. Jeez...half the time, you can't even go 55! Just too much congestion!

True. I-65 in Kentucky goes at 70 mph all the way until you reach the middle of Louisville Metro where it drops to 55. Of course it doesn't deter most drivers but 70 mph limit would be too dangerous b/c a lot of people would do 90 right in Downtown Louisville if 70 was the limit.

[Coconut1]

Originally Posted by UHgrad

My actual statement:



I'm assuming you didn't actually look at the map I posted before saying the first part. If you graphed population density and number of on/off-ramps per mile you would find that red areas (where speed limits are below 65) are much more densely populated and have more on/off ramps per mile than the blue areas where you are allowed to go 70. It is no accident that the speed limits are lower around each of the major metropolitan areas in the state (Richmond, NOVA, HR, Charlottesville) as merging on and off the highway is one of the most dangerous things we do each day.



Rural is defined many ways, but the majority of them include some reference to population density and proximity to major metropolitan areas. So yes, much of 64 between HR and Richmond is relatively rural with a low population density and few people getting on and off compared with Hampton Roads, Richmond, NOVA, or Charlottesville. 64 between Richmond and Charlottesville is also considered rural. You are welcome to make your own population density map if you like.

ERS/USDA Data - Rural Definitions: Rural Definition Mapping Utility

Still not convinced? Lets consider the density of exits on 64, that is easy enough to do as well. Virginia numbers their exits by mile marker so you just subtract the adjacent exits from each other to find the distance between them.

Virginia Interstate Exits

The blue area (70mph) between HR and Richmond starts just before James City County so lets call that exit 242. The blue area ends right around 295 so lets call that exit 200. Between exit 200 and 242 there are 8 other exits. Subtracting 242 from 200 gives us roughly 42 miles of interstate. 42/10 = 4.2 miles between exits.

Now lets look at a 40 something mile stretch in Hampton Roads, say from Jefferson (exit 255) to 264 in Chesapeake (exit 299). Over this 45 mile stretch there are 30 exits. 45/30 = 1.5 miles between exits.

That means that the density of exits in the "rural" area between Williamsburg and Richmond is about 3x less than in the Hampton Roads region on 64. Given the much higher population combined with the higher density of exits, I think it is safe to assume that MUCH MORE people are getting on and off the highway in HR than in say... New Kent County.

The rest of your statement is subjective because you provide no crash statistics. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't more dangerous, I really didn't comment on that. All I said is that it is more rural than a major metro and there are less people getting on and off the highway in closely spaced exits, I stand by both of those statements. I also posted a link from VDOT that lists one of their speed limit considerations as "Features affecting traffic flow, such as interchange spacing, vehicle mix, and traffic volumes" which is supported by the analysis above.

You are entitled to your opinion on the rest, I'm sure the information is available if you really want to establish the most dangerous areas of 64. If you have a vendetta against speed traps that is fine, but that is not the reason that speeds are lower in HR than they are in Henrico County.

Density of an area is irrelevant. How much traffic does the road handle in a day? That's a better judge of what is actually happening on the roadway as opposed to who happens to be living within a certain distance from the road.

[UHgrad]

Originally Posted by Coconut1

Density of an area is irrelevant. How much traffic does the road handle in a day? That's a better judge of what is actually happening on the roadway as opposed to who happens to be living within a certain distance from the road.

"Features affecting traffic flow, such as interchange spacing, vehicle mix, and traffic volumes"

Take it up with the state, they think the number of people getting on and off and the interchange spacing is relevant. That tends to increase in densely populated areas because there are more short trips, more delivery trucks, more busses, and more backups during commuting hours. So density is relevant, it is not just throughput. I think there is a strong correlation anyway, are you honestly trying to argue that 64 in Henrico County sees more traffic than 64 at Jefferson?? I can't imagine that is true. Regardless though, merging onto the highway is hard enough at 60mph during congested times where tailgating is prevalent, trying to do that at 70 will only make it tougher and as I demonstrated earlier, speeding on short trips has little impact on your commute time so it is irrational to begin with and only satisfies people impatient tendencies and egos.

[ShadowBat]

On the east coast and especially in the mid atlantic and north, speed limits in urban areas drop to 55. I was just in Pittsburgh and there's is the same. 65 out of the city and 55 in the city. It's like that too everywhere else I have been on the east coast as well. As a whole, the east coast is vastly more densely populated from Maine to Florida than most places out west. If you took the same land area as CA(the most populous state) and calculated the same area on the east coast, it would be double the population of CA. Because of the increased traffic and closer proximity of cities you have lower speed limits.

[Erma]

I don't know, with the price of gas, why would you want to drive faster and waste it?

[UHgrad]

Originally Posted by Erma

I don't know, with the price of gas, why would you want to drive faster and waste it?

You are absolutely right, on long trips where time is valuable and you can save hours by speeding I can see why you might do it... but on the average commute you gain a few minutes at best by costing yourself 10% - 25% more in fuel. It makes no sense whatsoever to gripe about gas prices or wars over oil and then haul ass everywhere rapidly accelerating, slamming on your brakes, tailgating, and speeding.

Gas Mileage Tips - Driving More Efficiently

Smooth and slow is the way to go. LOL

[Coconut1]

Originally Posted by UHgrad

"Features affecting traffic flow, such as interchange spacing, vehicle mix, and traffic volumes"

Take it up with the state, they think the number of people getting on and off and the interchange spacing is relevant. That tends to increase in densely populated areas because there are more short trips, more delivery trucks, more busses, and more backups during commuting hours. So density is relevant, it is not just throughput. I think there is a strong correlation anyway, are you honestly trying to argue that 64 in Henrico County sees more traffic than 64 at Jefferson?? I can't imagine that is true. Regardless though, merging onto the highway is hard enough at 60mph during congested times where tailgating is prevalent, trying to do that at 70 will only make it tougher and as I demonstrated earlier, speeding on short trips has little impact on your commute time so it is irrational to begin with and only satisfies people impatient tendencies and egos.

I never said it would have a major impact on ones commute. You brought that up yourself.

They could put out whatever they want to justify the slow speed limits, but it doesn't change my opinion that local police take advantage of these low speed limits and wait to simply hand out tickets.

Originally Posted by Erma

I don't know, with the price of gas, why would you want to drive faster and waste it?

Why do people smoke? Why do they drink? Why do they take expensive vacations? All of those cost money (some might say waste money) but people do those things.

[Erma]

Originally Posted by Coconut1

I never said it would have a major impact on ones commute. You brought that up yourself.

They could put out whatever they want to justify the slow speed limits, but it doesn't change my opinion that local police take advantage of these low speed limits and wait to simply hand out tickets.



Why do people smoke? Why do they drink? Why do they take expensive vacations? All of those cost money (some might say waste money) but people do those things.

But....are they breaking the law? IMHO, if you are going to travel over the designated speed limit, then it's no one's fault except the person doing it if they get a ticket. You're never going to make everyone happy and with all the different personalities on the road, there has to be a happy medium.

[Spazkat9696]

I pretty much go the speed I feel comfortable going anyway (65-70mph), so I'm not worried about the 55mph. What does get me is why is the speed limit only 35 through the downtown tunnel? I make sure I'm going no more than 55 through there to avoid a reckless charge, but why only 35?

[Coconut1]

Originally Posted by Erma

But....are they breaking the law? IMHO, if you are going to travel over the designated speed limit, then it's no one's fault except the person doing it if they get a ticket. You're never going to make everyone happy and with all the different personalities on the road, there has to be a happy medium.

Yes, they are; however, just because it's the law does not make it right. When speed limits are purposely kept low and cops are staked out with the sole intention of handing out tickets, that's a problem.

Originally Posted by Spazkat9696

I pretty much go the speed I feel comfortable going anyway (65-70mph), so I'm not worried about the 55mph. What does get me is why is the speed limit only 35 through the downtown tunnel? I make sure I'm going no more than 55 through there to avoid a reckless charge, but why only 35?

I do, too. I've learned where the speed traps are and am thankfully ticket free. It still doesn't make the speed traps right, though.

People are scared of the tunnel? I had somebody in the car with me once and she literally was freaking out... thank goodness she wasn't driving!!