Tide Light Rail extension - why Chesapeake and not Portsmouth? (Norfolk: oceanfront, living)

[UHgrad]

Originally Posted by Coconut1

Who cares if a person is a past, present, or future resident. If they're posting on this forum they obviously have an interest in the area. I appreciate your concern, though!

PS- S, not T.

Your implication was that this poster is somehow contributing to the lack of progress in the area despite not even living here. It makes no sense because... nevermind, my explanation is probably too logically consistent for you to care...

How about I just blame you for the crime in Newark, didn't you live in Jersey at some point? That is just as relevant as your comment about Pink Jazz and HR residents. Hell, I don't think you even live here anymore... any lack of progress must be your fault. LOL

[shorelinebound]

P-town already has some serious traffic congestion from Norfolk and Chesapeake commuters. Unless you're from west side of HR, you only have three tunnels to get in Ptown. This is why mayor think it is best to shut their corporation with surrounding cities and start working on congestion in the city.

Greenbrier is pretty much alive in Chesapeake now, and it will get bigger in next few years along with more modern shops and businesses. (Go Dollar Tree, yayy)

Norfolk are planning to get rid of all of wastelands in Military Circle, including the abandoned mall. I heard they're planning to have a town center on the spot, just much like Peninsula Town Center. So it will be best for light rail to shine through MC and GB, and it will make a better connection with southern area of HR

[Pink Jazz]

My initial point was that Portsmouth already has higher bus ridership than Chesapeake despite its lower population. In fact, Chesapeake has the lowest bus ridership of any city served by Hampton Roads Transit other than Williamsburg and its surrounding counties. Because Portsmouth has higher bus ridership than Chesapeake, wouldn't there be greater potential light rail ridership in Portsmouth?

[goofy328]

The money is in Chesapeake.

If you think about light rail so far, it makes sense. The areas it goes through downtown are more desirable than where it should go. Once Norfolk completes it's slow gentrification of the entire city, you will see light rail in most destinations throughout the city. You'll probably see it in Ghent once they get rid of the poor surrounding that neighborhood and create socioeconomic continuity between downtown and ODU

[goofy328]

The primary issue with Portsmouth is connecting it with downtown Norfolk. They should have done that when they rebuilt the Midtown. With Portsmouth, you either build a tube and have residents board underground, or you build a bridge and force people to board an elevated platform. Chesapeake and Virginia Beach give you a quicker return on your investment, for less money. Portsmouth should have been equipped for this 50 years ago. No one wants to make that type of investment at today's prices.

Other cities like NYC have similar issues. Good train service in Manhattan and Brooklyn, non existent, or poor, service in the outer boroughs. Just take the bus to those neighborhoods as they aren't worth the investment in infrastructure.

It shouldn't be this way but this is how public transportation works in most urban areas. If they clean up HR and get rid of the welfare class you'll start seeing investment like never before around here.

[shorelinebound]

Originally Posted by goofy328

The primary issue with Portsmouth is connecting it with downtown Norfolk. They should have done that when they rebuilt the Midtown. With Portsmouth, you either build a tube and have residents board underground, or you build a bridge and force people to board an elevated platform. Chesapeake and Virginia Beach give you a quicker return on your investment, for less money. Portsmouth should have been equipped for this 50 years ago. No one wants to make that type of investment at today's prices.

Other cities like NYC have similar issues. Good train service in Manhattan and Brooklyn, non existent, or poor, service in the outer boroughs. Just take the bus to those neighborhoods as they aren't worth the investment in infrastructure.

It shouldn't be this way but this is how public transportation works in most urban areas. If they clean up HR and get rid of the welfare class you'll start seeing investment like never before around here.

This make sense to me now, it is actually cheaper and quicker to build more reliable transportation including light rail to Portsmouth than figuring out with congestion at bridges and tunnels. Maybe it is better if Portsmouth could work on 664 highway connection and let light rails and buses to do their job in midtown.

If Chesapeake and Portsmouth could work together with light rail on westbound and southbound, it might reduce traffic congestion in Portsmouth.

[goofy328]

Originally Posted by shorelinebound

This make sense to me now, it is actually cheaper and quicker to build more reliable transportation including light rail to Portsmouth than figuring out with congestion at bridges and tunnels. Maybe it is better if Portsmouth could work on 664 highway connection and let light rails and buses to do their job in midtown.

If Chesapeake and Portsmouth could work together with light rail on westbound and southbound, it might reduce traffic congestion in Portsmouth.

Parts of Portsmouth that are connected by land to Chesapeake and Suffolk will probably see light rail before a connection to Norfolk is built, due to the economics of the situation. Logically, it won't make a lot of sense, but practically, that is most likely what will happen.

Of course, Suffolk having a separate transportation authority that train won't go into Suffolk unless HRT does a partnership with that authority. Which is an entirely different conversation for a different thread.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by goofy328

Of course, Suffolk having a separate transportation authority that train won't go into Suffolk unless HRT does a partnership with that authority. Which is an entirely different conversation for a different thread.

Suffolk used to have service from HRT, but pulled out due to extremely low ridership.

Note that Williamsburg and its surrounding counties also has its own transit authority (Williamsburg Area Transit Authority, or WATA), but HRT has one route (121) that serves Colonial Williamsburg.

[goofy328]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

Suffolk used to have service from HRT, but pulled out due to extremely low ridership.

Note that Williamsburg and its surrounding counties also has its own transit authority (Williamsburg Area Transit Authority, or WATA), but HRT has one route (121) that serves Colonial Williamsburg.

Absolutely. Williamsburg and Suffolk have the smallest population of any of the seven cities. So it would make sense for them to have their own transit authorities, because the margins of a smaller authority that does not have to drive from Norfolk to Williamsburg, or from Norfolk to Suffolk, are far greater than it would be if one were to continue to stretch the resources of HRT out to those areas. Then it is just one bus running around in its own city, low mileage on those buses, and more money made per fare.

The irony of this is that if the rest of HR becomes overpopulated, where are those people going to move to? Williamsburg and Suffolk; neither of those places are in the position the Southside is in with respect to hurricanes or flash floods, both of those places are on good real estate. Both areas have a considerably better situation, with respect to crime, than anywhere else on the Peninsula or the Southside. When it becomes environmentally unpractical, prohibitively expensive, or aesthetically repugnant to develop the rest of HR, which will eventually happen, people will start to flood into Williamsburg and Suffolk to get away the "city".

[vdogg]

Originally Posted by UHgrad

LOL this went south real quick. When I said I agree with the above I was just referring to the ERT deal. I really don't know what went on behind the scenes.

But the fact of the matter is that Portsmouth wanted light rail included in the midtown tunnel expansion and it got nixed. Not sure if it was a money issue or what, but it isn't like Portsmouth wasn't trying for rail in there.

Portsmouth sees a light-rail hub at its end of the tunnel | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

When we signed that Faustian promise, ERT tried to scare us by saying the only way to have light rail included was by removing one of the traffic lanes. Of course building a larger tunnel was not possibly an option . At either rate, it was nixed, and we're stuck with this boondoggle for the next 58 years.