Virginia Beach vs Norfolk (Newport News, Hampton: 2015, foreclosure, crime)

[goofy328]

Apparently Norfolk has found a way to get around Virginia Beach and will still build the road they need to gain access to this new outlet mall they're talking about building at Lake Wright.

Norfolk outlet mall likely delayed, but engineers solve traffic snag | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

Sounds good. But is anyone going to travel there, if traffic is as much of a nightmare as they say that it is going to be.

Can the City of Norfolk, and the City of Virginia Beach get along?

[Beach Bus Bum]

I applaud Norfolk for being forward-thinking and progressive (even though the plan is fraught with danger), and I condemn VB for being too cautious, too scared, too regressive, and too damn stupid to notice they are blocking their own way. But although there are alternatives that are being discussed, people will come. And so will intolerable congestion. And then I will not longer be able to travel to that area without fear of wasting an entire day stuck in that area.

[goofy328]

Originally Posted by Beach Bus Bum

I applaud Norfolk for being forward-thinking and progressive (even though the plan is fraught with danger), and I condemn VB for being too cautious, too scared, too regressive, and too damn stupid to notice they are blocking their own way. But although there are alternatives that are being discussed, people will come. And so will intolerable congestion. And then I will not longer be able to travel to that area without fear of wasting an entire day stuck in that area.

I feel the same way. At least Norfolk is trying to think outside of the box. An outlet mall within city limits is a rare find for a city the size of Norfolk.

[Babe_Ruth]

Originally Posted by Beach Bus Bum

I applaud Norfolk for being forward-thinking and progressive and I condemn VB for being too regressive,..

BBB, hey brother, appreciate your post.. it gave me a much needed laugh today.

I guess you're not intimate with the denizens of Norfolk destroying Waterside, the issues MacArthur has had with local kids, the demise of Military Circle, etc, etc.
One of this project's strengths (imo.) is it's close proximity to Va Beach, so maybe it'll attract the predominately suburban, White demographic that you're demonizing, but which typically upholds businesses, as opposed to destroying them.

If you have kids in Norfolk public schools, please tell me more about the progressive, forward-thinking institutions of lower learning Norfolk boasts too.. peace.

[Coconut1]

Originally Posted by Beach Bus Bum

I applaud Norfolk for being forward-thinking and progressive (even though the plan is fraught with danger), and I condemn VB for being too cautious, too scared, too regressive, and too damn stupid to notice they are blocking their own way.

I wouldn't say that. Virginia Beach doesn't want the project because it's not in Virginia Beach. If it were in the same area just on their side, and Norfolk was doing what they're doing, they'd be up at arms.

Originally Posted by Babe_Ruth

BBB, hey brother, appreciate your post.. it gave me a much needed laugh today.

I guess you're not intimate with the denizens of Norfolk destroying Waterside, the issues MacArthur has had with local kids, the demise of Military Circle, etc, etc.
One of this project's strengths (imo.) is it's close proximity to Va Beach, so maybe it'll attract the predominately suburban, White demographic that you're demonizing, but which typically upholds businesses, as opposed to destroying them.

If you have kids in Norfolk public schools, please tell me more about the progressive, forward-thinking institutions of lower learning Norfolk boasts too.. peace.

I wouldn't say that, either.

I don't see BBB "demonizing" anyone, nor did they bring up race. I'm shocked anyone would even say such a thing on the HR forum considering how "equal" and "integrated" the area is, but I digress.

[UHgrad]

Originally Posted by Beach Bus Bum

I applaud Norfolk for being forward-thinking and progressive (even though the plan is fraught with danger), and I condemn VB for being too cautious, too scared, too regressive, and too damn stupid to notice they are blocking their own way. But although there are alternatives that are being discussed, people will come. And so will intolerable congestion. And then I will not longer be able to travel to that area without fear of wasting an entire day stuck in that area.

This is a stupid place to put the mall and VB city council knows it. And Norfolk could easily put access off of Military via Miller Store Rd if the wanted to but they tried to cut right through the Burton Station SGA area which was a designated as an SGA long before this outlet mall project was even considered.

Burton Station SGA :: VBgov.com - City of Virginia Beach

Ever try to get to VWC (Wesleyan) during rush hour? Tons of people criscrossing in that small gap between the 64 ramp and Wesleyan drive? Now throw a giant mall at that same intersection (or even a half mile down at Burton Station) with people trying to cross the opposite way to turn left into the mall... it is just a stupid place for a project that big. Norfolk should use that military circle property (which is headed to foreclosure) for the outlet it would have been better for all parties involved... they should turn lake wright into a park. It is already green space.

There may be petty bickering between the cities involved in this also (there usually is) but I can't defend Norfolk on this project. Northampton is gonna back up onto the interstate every afternoon once this thing is built.

[UHgrad]

Originally Posted by Coconut1

I'm shocked anyone would even say such a thing on the HR forum considering how "equal" and "integrated" the area is, but I digress.

It brings me great pleasure to know that two simple studies I posted over a year ago cause you so much consternation that you still reference them today. It was just simple analysis of income data and where people live relative to each other... no surveys, no cleverly worded questions, no room for political bias, just indisputable numbers. And try as you might to refute them, with weak attacks on random internet posters from the city (who represent about .00001% of the city population), you cannot do so because they are just indisputable numbers. LOL

Here, for old times sake...

http://www.brookings.edu/research/pa...unequal-berube

http://www4.uwm.edu/eti/integration/integration.htm

[goofy328]

Originally Posted by UHgrad

This is a stupid place to put the mall and VB city council knows it. Plus VB has had the Burton Station area designated as an SGA since before this outlet mall project was even considered.

Burton Station SGA :: VBgov.com - City of Virginia Beach

Ever try to get to VWC (Wesleyan) during rush hour? Now throw a giant mall at that same intersection about 100ft down from the I-64 interchange... it is just a stupid place for a project that big. Norfolk should use that military circle property (which is headed to foreclosure) for the outlet it would have been better for all parties involved.

There may be petty bickering between the cities involved in this also (there usually is) but I can't defend Norfolk on this project. Northampton is gonna back up onto the interstate every afternoon once this thing is built

Which gives Norfolk an excuse to do something else to fix what they broke in the future. Liberal, welfare cities are good at inventing reasons to spend taxpayers money. They spend your money on what they tell you you want and create squalid conditions that force to believe it was the only way. This is what Hampton Roads does. Virginia Beach just has a different way of doing it that is more palatable for their constituents.

[UHgrad]

Originally Posted by goofy328

Which gives Norfolk an excuse to do something else to fix what they broke in the future. Liberal, welfare cities are good at inventing reasons to spend taxpayers money. They spend your money on what they tell you you want and create squalid conditions that force to believe it was the only way. This is what Hampton Roads does. Virginia Beach just has a different way of doing it that is more palatable for their constituents.

I'm sure they have good intentions with this project, it will have highway visibility, generate tax revenue, and capture some of that money that currently goes to the Williamsburg outlets... but that is a terrible location at an already terrible intersection. VB stands to gain nothing from this project it should be no surprise that they voted it down.

VB is no beacon of sustainable growth but at least they seem to have a long term vision these days with the land to do it. I can't figure out what Norfolk is trying to do in the big picture. Every place cool floods, the schools suck, the best university in the area is surrounded very sketchy neighborhoods where they students are being targeted by criminals, and developers seem to just take advantage of them over and over again. They city has some great neighborhoods and is the urban center of the region but they just seem to take two steps back for every step forward.

Given what has happened recently in longtime liberal strongholds like Baltimore, Ferguson, Detroit, etc... it does make one wonder how the democratic/progressive policies are avoiding any blame. Perhaps you have a point...

[goofy328]

Originally Posted by UHgrad

I'm sure they have good intentions with this project, it will have highway visibility, generate tax revenue, and capture some of that money that currently goes to the Williamsburg outlets... but that is a terrible location at an already terrible intersection. VB stands to gain nothing from this project it should be no surprise that they voted it down.

VB is no beacon of sustainable growth but at least they seem to have a long term vision these days with the land to do it. I can't figure out what Norfolk is trying to do in the big picture. Every place cool floods, the schools suck, the best university in the area is surrounded very sketchy neighborhoods where they students are being targeted by criminals, and developers seem to just take advantage of them over and over again. They city has some great neighborhoods and is the urban center of the region but they just seem to take two steps back for every step forward.

Given what has happened recently in longtime liberal strongholds like Baltimore, Ferguson, Detroit, etc... it does make one wonder how the democratic/progressive policies are avoiding any blame. Perhaps you have a point...

I'm not a liberal anymore. The conservatives are making a lot of sense to me these days. Might have to vote Libertarian. Who is in the ballot this year? Seriously.

Liberal cities like Detroit and Baltimore are social experiments for the elite and their One World plans, which will start in Black, Latino, and impoverished communities. People think Blacks run these cities. They're just figureheads. The real controlling interests that are intentionally bankrupting those cities; you're probably just better off not knowing. Organized crime has been running cities like Youngstown for several decades. We already know about Chicago.

But what may surprise people, is what may be going on behind cities like New York, Atlanta, LA. We all know it is unsustainable; if you do well in these cities, good for you. But there are millions of poor and homeless in these areas.

I'm starting to believe that Norfolk, Portsmouth, and Newport News are localized examples of what has been going on for decades in post industrial cities. Ironic, as much money that exists in Hampton Roads, the shape those cities are in.

The federal government, through privatization, will take over Detroit and Baltimore. It will happen in our lifetime. They have the money to do it, and they will help create conditions in which their citizenry will beg them to do it. Detroit is not going to make a full recovery and Baltimore will eventually be where Detroit is now. Seriously. But it will under the cloak of privatization. Philadelphia already started this process with some of their schools.