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This is just so bizarre that I hate to even ring in, but I agree that US education and healthcare in general and Hawai'i education and healthcare specifically would be a concern. I went to public school in a very poor district and received what I think is a better education than the average available in Hawai'i public schools, which are compromised by a number of issues well-covered elsewhere on this forum.
We had planned to retire "permanently" on Maui, but quickly came to realize that the older and less-healthy we became, the less likely we would be to have good healthcare readily available. That's not to be harsh, but just a reality for our expectation level. We are still middle-aged and healthy, but despite our dedication to staying well as long as possible, "things happen." We both realized that if either of us had a serious health problem, we'd rather be treated on the mainland, with Honolulu as a distant second, and Maui as a stopgap only.
The part I really HATE to comment on is circumcision. Just yesterday, however, there were results of a new CDC study that show that US rates have declined "to just 32.5 percent in 2009 from 56 percent in 2006." (Excluding procedures performed outside of hospitals and those not reimbursed by insurance.) Here's a link to the results (for those for whom *this* would be the major issue -- ahem): http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/he...r=1&ref=health
[Still blushing.]
Really, there are just so many issues to consider when thinking about moving to remote tropical islands, there's nothing better than spending time there, meeting other people who've moved, and being really aware of what's essential and not essential for your family and your family's unique goals and needs. I'd never say "don't move," but making an informed decision can save a lot of heartache, money, and stress if it doesn't work out.
Best of luck.
Last edited by whynot?; 08-19-2010 at 07:09 PM..
Reason: clarification
What is considered strange or abnormal can turn to commonly acceptable very quickly. If it was true that being uncircumcised was previously worth ridicule by some, I would guess that has lessened quite a bit within even the last/current generation.
Consider tattoos - it used to be just certain groups that had them aplenty, such as military, or goth. Now I know young girls who work at corporate desks in neat corporate clothing and are happily discussing their 3rd tat.
Agree that healthcare needs much improvement, here in Hawaii and in the US in general. Everyone picks their reasons to be somewhere or NOT elsewhere.
For a family of 4, expect to pay about $1000 per month or more for healthcare.
Wow! That's really something! As you all know I'm sure, all of our doctors visits, hospital visits etc. are covered. Things that we pay extra insurance for are things like dental visits, optometrist visits for eyeglasses prescriptions, and anything not involving an MD (ex. chiropractor, physiotherapist, prescriptions etc.).
Anyhow, for those things not covered by insurance, we currently pay just over $160 per month. Mind you, our drug plan is lousy, so most medication we end up paying out of pocket... maybe $250 per month. Other stuff we pay out of pocket doesn't add up to much though... currently, we're all pretty healthy thank goodness!
Up here, a lot of people are under the impression that Americans pay less in taxes overall compared to us, therefore for many, the net result would be that even after paying extra money down there for health care related expenses, you'd still be ahead financially in most locales (don't think this applies to Hawaii obviously!) So... I wonder if you take taxation levels into account how much more the average person's disposable income would be compared to here.
Of course, I've also seen horror stories on various news programs documenting people going bankrupt in the U.S. due to health care expenses down there... I assume this must be the unfortunate exception to the rule... although it must be beyond horrible for anyone who that happens to.
It gets rather complicated, that's for sure.
Anyone know of a good take-home pay estimator for Hawaii?
Here's decent one for Canada if anyone is curious and wants to run some comparisons...
What is considered strange or abnormal can turn to commonly acceptable very quickly. If it was true that being uncircumcised was previously worth ridicule by some, I would guess that has lessened quite a bit within even the last/current generation.
So true. When I was in highschool (about 16 years ago), you would still hear a lot of girls saying how "disgusting" or "gross" it was for a male to be uncircumcized. Yet now, like I said, most people here don't bother getting their boys done... not only is it no longer covered by insurance, but there is now only ONE doctor in our entire city who does it (and he has a 3 month waiting list!)... so in only 1 generation here, not getting done will go from being "gross" to normal.
Same thing with tattoos... my parents' generation saw tattoos as deviant and meaning that you were into bad stuff... but now, most people in my generation see them as no more deviant than getting your ears pierced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whynot?
Really, there are just so many issues to consider when thinking about moving to remote tropical islands, there's nothing better than spending time there, meeting other people who've moved, and being really aware of what's essential and not essential for your family and your family's unique goals and needs. I'd never say "don't move," but making an informed decision can save a lot of heartache, money, and stress if it doesn't work out.
Best of luck.
Well put, and thanks for the good luck!
Last edited by LoveSummer7; 08-19-2010 at 10:05 PM..
If you want to live in a warmer climate, I 'd suggest Australia or Northern NZ. Since they are commonwealth nations, you'll have high priority when it comes to obtaining a visa and finding a job. Basically, you'll get to live in a warmer version of Canada with a few little differences. Victoria, BC has a pretty moderate climate and is sometimes classified as Mediterranean. Check out the weather stats of Victoria. It does get more sunshine annually than Vancouver due to the rain shadow effect, and the temps are fairly constant year-round with very few days dipping below freezing.
I appreciate your suggestions!
However, here's the thing. I don't want to settle for having very few days that dip below freezing... I want year-round warmth and humidity. I don't want a place that goes to unbearable scorching temps in summer with cooler winters that make you put a sweater on... I don't want cold winds from the north ruining an otherwise nice summer day...
My wanting to move to Hawaii is not based entirely on logic I suppose.
If I wanted to be totally logical, I'd stay exactly where I am, retire in 20-25 years, then spend 6 months every year over wintertime in Hawaii in a rented condo. But for all I know, I could get run over by a bus in 5 years... could end up with a chronic illness that impacts my ability to do a lot of the stuff that I want to do when I retire... who knows... stuff happens... so there is risk in waiting too long for something that you really really want.
Once our kids are in school in a few years, the only winter vacation time we'll have is spring break... 1 measly week per year... no way will we fly to Hawaii every year for 1 week when 2 of those days will be spent in airports.... bleh. Can't take vacation over the 2 week school Christmas holidays because my company doesn't allow it. No point in vacationing in Hawaii over the summer break because the weather here is just fine... we like our summer weather here very much... trouble is, our summers are WAY too short!
If we move, and things go bad, we can always come "home" to Canada.... but if we don't TRY for what we want, we'll always be wishing for what might have been... As I see it, worst case, despite all our planning and research, if we realize the move was a mistake, we come back to Canada and maybe have to work an extra 2-5 years before we retire due to the money burnt on moving to and from Hawaii (plus not having saved as much during the first years after moving to Hawaii).
And, if health care expenses in retirement are too much, we can move back to Canada, and do what a lot of people here do... spend summer in Canada, and 6 months every winter in a warm part of the U.S.
I've wanted to live on a tropical island ever since I was a little kid. I'm 34 years old, have traveled over large parts of the U.S. and most of Canada, and still, nothing has the same appeal to me as Hawaii. What can I say, your climate over there is pretty darned near perfect... it's unique to the entire United States... there is nowhere else in the U.S. that has quite the same climate as Hawaii... some places come close... have some similarities... but they just aren't quite as good as Hawaii. And there certainly isn't anywhere in Canada like that!
I know living there will be nothing like vacationing there... living there, most of our time will be spent doing the same stuff we do here: work, keeping our house in order, running errands, driving the kids to activities etc... It gets dark early there... so it's not like I can expect to get off work at 9pm and enjoy the scenery (here, in summertime, we have a few weeks where it is daylight until 10pm in the evening... in wintertime, it gets dark as early as 5 or 6pm during some months)
But, even though so much of our time will be spent on stuff that isn't fun, at least our fingers and toes won't be numb every time we have to drive somewhere in -40F temps. At least we won't be freezing our tails off whenever we have to brush the snow off the car or scrape the ice from our windshields... at least when we have some downtime, we can sit outside on a lawn chair, smell the outdoor scents, listen to the birds chirping and enjoy being outdoors, rather than being stuck indoors (as you can tell, I'm not really into winter sports haha)
So, despite all the risks, I still want to do it... I'll never know unless I try...
Victoria doesn't interest me... we hate moving... so if we're going to go to the trouble of moving outside of our city, it had better be to somewhere that is EXACTLY what we're looking for. Don't get me wrong, Victoria is a nice city... been there... but it just doesn't appeal to me enough to go to the trouble of MOVING there.
I'll look into Australia or New Zealand though... I'm rather curious now that you've mentioned it...
Anyhow, sorry for the long rambling post... just trying to give some insight into WHY I want to go to Hawaii specifically and why I haven't considered other options like just vacationing there every year, or moving elsewhere in Canada or elsewhere in the U.S.
I guess what I'm asking for is advice to help us to maximize the odds of our successfully relocating and integrating ourselves into the community. Tips on things that an outsider might overlook... useful info like health care costs... (I really appreciate your throwing me an actual number on that... helps in budgeting!!) And any other tips that you guys want to throw at us would be fabulous!
I find your pointing out all the negatives really helpful actually... wouldn't want to do anything drastic like this without having such things considered carefully well in advance.
Health care costs are tough to calculate.
If you work in Hawaii, for 20+ hours per week average, your employer must provide individual health care coverage. There may be a cost to you, but unless you make a really decent amount of money, your cost for individual coverage will be zero or almost zero.
Family coverage in that circumstance, (unless the employer also pays for it, which is rare) will cost you about $600 per month. Best bet is for both individuals to get employed and get the basically free health coverage. Of course, one of the reasons why pay is lower in Hawaii is because the employer has to provide that coverage...
Hawaii laws on coverage are much different than the rest of the country. You probably will not have a deductible and no co-pay either, unless it is a very small amount.
Alternately, if you can pass the physical (and for as long as medically-underwritten coverage is still available, I think Obama-care is going to eliminate it), you can get "catastrophic" coverage for a family for $277/month. That plan has a $5,000 annual deductible, so you basically pay for everything out-of-pocket as long as you're relatively healthy. But, because you HAVE insurance (albeit a large deductible), you qualify for the "adjustments" that doctors and hospitals make when submitting bills for insurance. A recent visit to the urgent care clinic, when my son had an ear infection, ended up costing (IIRC) about $140.
After the deductible is met, the plan picks up 80%, until your total out-of-pocket cost hits $6,000, then they pay everything. Also, a few services are free all the time - annual 'well woman' exams, mammograms, PSA tests.
A 'high deductible' plan also qualifies you for a "Health Savings Account", into which you can put over $5,000/year tax-free (you deduct what you put into the account each year). Then you can pay any medical expenses (including eyecare, dental, prescriptions, etc.) from that account, in pre-tax dollars. We funded our account with $4,000 and have not spent it all, despite having paid for our son's orthodontia, contact lenses, dental work and cleanings for all of us, etc. Anything you don't spend from the account you just keep, and it can keep building up.
We think it's a bargain. To keep the coverage I had (for which I paid about $50/week from my paycheck) when I was working for the State of NY, was costing me upwards of $13,000/year for the family. It was good coverage, but dental and vision were extra, there were co-pays and a small deductible for "out of network" providers (and no network providers in Hawaii!). And to get a family plan with a "normal" deductible, as a self-employed person here in Hawaii, would have cost a similar amount.
I had a job offer and was told that by law they had to pay for my individual coverage, it would have cost them $5,000/year. If I wanted family coverage I had to pay for it myself.
Wow! That's really something! As you all know I'm sure, all of our doctors visits, hospital visits etc. are covered. Things that we pay extra insurance for are things like dental visits, optometrist visits for eyeglasses prescriptions, and anything not involving an MD (ex. chiropractor, physiotherapist, prescriptions etc.).
Anyhow, for those things not covered by insurance, we currently pay just over $160 per month. Mind you, our drug plan is lousy, so most medication we end up paying out of pocket... maybe $250 per month. Other stuff we pay out of pocket doesn't add up to much though... currently, we're all pretty healthy thank goodness!
Up here, a lot of people are under the impression that Americans pay less in taxes overall compared to us, therefore for many, the net result would be that even after paying extra money down there for health care related expenses, you'd still be ahead financially in most locales (don't think this applies to Hawaii obviously!) So... I wonder if you take taxation levels into account how much more the average person's disposable income would be compared to here.
Of course, I've also seen horror stories on various news programs documenting people going bankrupt in the U.S. due to health care expenses down there... I assume this must be the unfortunate exception to the rule... although it must be beyond horrible for anyone who that happens to.
It gets rather complicated, that's for sure.
Anyone know of a good take-home pay estimator for Hawaii?
Here's decent one for Canada if anyone is curious and wants to run some comparisons...
We are a family of 3 with my DH's employer paying most of his portion of our plan. We have Kaiser PPO, which includes vision and $1000 per year dental, per person. We pay around $680 per month basically myself and our college age daughter. Most US insurers have reasonable copays on medications. Ours is $15 per RX, per month. We pay $20 per Dr's visit and have no deductible.
So, our out-of-pocket, not including the actual premium, is roughly $40 per month. Thats a couple of reoccuring RX's and an occasional DR visit.
Hope this helps put thing in perspective. And by the by, I would LOVE a national healthcare option!
However, here's the thing. I don't want to settle for having very few days that dip below freezing... I want year-round warmth and humidity. I don't want a place that goes to unbearable scorching temps in summer with cooler winters that make you put a sweater on... I don't want cold winds from the north ruining an otherwise nice summer day...
Do you like bugs and spiders? Would you mind waking up one morning and find out a spider spent the night with you under the covers? Would you mind accidentally stepping on a centipede? Something tickles your arm and it's a scorpion? Unless you live in sky high altitudes on Maui, this is what you will be contending with.
Even if you get Terminix, critters will not go away. The helpful gecko chomps on them and leaves poop everywhere. Do you like mosquitos? Just one can drive you nuts all night.
How about mice and rats? They have no predators and roam around the fields and come to your house for water. If you notice those lovely mangoes on the counter being carved away overnight, the rat's feeding.
No one is immune unless you live in a high rise condo that is over 4 floors up, with an $800 monthly mgt fee.
A friend of mine lives in a million $ house with million $ views. And she has centipedes on the 2nd floor. Yes, they do crawl upwards. Going to one of her beautiful bathrooms requires a quick scan, because one clattered right behind me as I was "doing my deed."
If you love the heat, this is what comes with the heat. For this reason, I will never ever complain of the cold again. I'll put on a dozen sweaters. Wool socks. Bug-free environment to me means a true sanctuary where you can relax. It's hard to truly relax here inside a house.
Scouting for a critter before one can slip into a shoe, sandal, bedcovers, or step onto a floor, and checking my bed every nite before sleeping, is not feeling at home.
I don't mean to be negative, just giving you the full, unglossed picture of living here. I personally know of a Haiku woman who was blind in one eye after she was bitten by a 'pede. Another man who died with a 'pede-bite due to staph infection that resulted. Sure it's probably a tiny chance this will happen to you, like getting attacked by a shark in the ocean. So read and heed, or ignore.
I've come to a truce with the critters. I'm careful and cautious, but I understand I'm invading their space too. God's creatures great and small, all should co-exist. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate what it's like to live in an environment where you can plop down and go to sleep without nightly inspection. Living on Maui is like camping.
Paradise comes with a price. The price is different for everyone who moves here. The price is whatever you dislike that you're putting up with in order to enjoy the benefits of living here. Whether or not it's worth it to you, for most people, will not be truly known until they do move over here!
well.. first thing first.. Get your green card or make sure your future employer sponsor. As you may know, it's not easy to get one. So far I have met only one (a chip designer works for Freescale) who got green card sponsored by his company. I doubt if any company in Hawaii would do that in this ecomony though. I wish you best luck!
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who knows... stuff happens... so there is risk in waiting too long for something that you really really want.
