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Old 08-28-2010, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Kūkiʻo, HI & Manhattan Beach, CA
2,624 posts, read 7,261,636 times
Reputation: 2416

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Quote:
Originally Posted by R_Cowgirl View Post
Her premise is false from the get-go. She states Caucasians are the largest group in Hawaii. Not True. Asians are. Hawaii QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau Additionally, there are a great many assumptions and biases that show up in that paper. Better book - "Land and Power in Hawaii." Also "Broken Trust." Yes, there is Missionary Power and influence, Influence of the Big 5. But can't lay it all at the feet of the Caucasians.
It might be helpful to reread the abstract to Rohrer's dissertation. The first sentence (page ix) reads as follows:
Haole (popularly understood as white people or whiteness in Hawai'i) - now the largest and arguably most powerful socio-political influence in the islands - has gone largely unexamined, especially when contrasted to the extensive interrogation of native Hawaiian identity in both popular and academic discourse.
In other words, she asserts that haole are the largest socio-political influence in Hawai'i, not the largest group in terms of population.

From the time Captain James Cook named Hawai'i "The Sandwich Islands" to the Admission Act of 1959, the haole social-political influence in Hawai'i has been enormous, regardless of the population size.
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Old 08-28-2010, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Big Island
160 posts, read 486,047 times
Reputation: 63
Out of curiosity, anyone know where the largest percentage of people live that can trace their families back here to say 1900? Please dont flame me cuz Im probably wording my question wrong.

Example: My great grandfather spent the majority of his life in Chicago, as did my grandfather, as did my father, as did I until now.

Im guessing its ranch families, but ya never know.
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Old 08-28-2010, 03:56 PM
 
Location: galaxy far far away
3,110 posts, read 5,387,035 times
Reputation: 7281
Thanks Hotcatz and Sweetbeet. Tried to rep you but I have to spread it around, too.

Bottom line? It is what it is. We are where we are. We can't change the past. All groups in Hawaii have their good history and their questionable history. All we can do is move forward with Aloha and keep working on it.

Cheers everybody! Have a wonderful weekend!
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Old 08-28-2010, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Kauai
649 posts, read 3,444,886 times
Reputation: 473
There is a large native Hawaiian population in Anahola (Kauai). I am working on a land issue where I'm going back to 1930-something, when the father died, leaving his land to his wife and children. I suspect he was here for some time before that. So that family (and now it's a very large one) can probably trace back to 1900.

I have another one where the original deed is in Hawaiian, I'm not sure the year of it but it's old. That is for some land on the north shore (Wainiha area). I know that family can trace back to 1900.

Just a couple of examples, but there are a lot of longtime families here on Kauai.
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Moku Nui, Hawaii
11,053 posts, read 24,038,603 times
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We have loads of the old families around here. Most of them worked sugar or cattle and when they tell you a story it always involves a semi-genealogy when they mention someone. "Auntie Lani, who was my mom's second cousin on her father's side, used to etc."

Those Hawaiian land titles are sure pretty documents if they are like the ones I've seen. Really nice handwriting and copperplate type signatures. I've heard that if they are translated properly, they designate that the land is held in the old Hawaiian style. The land is only "owned" for the life of the owner and after that person dies, it reverts back to their designated heir - even if it had been sold previously to someone else. The "owner" could only sell the land for the amount of time they owned it - up until their death. Then it reverted back to the heirs of the fellow who sold it. I forget if there was a designated heir, I think it was either firstborn child or firstborn son, I'm not sure if gender mattered. It is an odd twist but makes sense when you consider it.
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Kauai
649 posts, read 3,444,886 times
Reputation: 473
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotzcatz View Post
I've heard that if they are translated properly, they designate that the land is held in the old Hawaiian style. The land is only "owned" for the life of the owner and after that person dies, it reverts back to their designated heir - even if it had been sold previously to someone else. The "owner" could only sell the land for the amount of time they owned it - up until their death.
Wow, that really provides a context for the long-term 'ground leases' in Hawaii. I had no idea, but it makes sense - to the Hawaiians, it would have made sense to grant a long lease, essentially, to give it for the remaining life of the owner. Maybe that is not the genesis of it - it could be that basically when the first 'foreigner' landowners got their hands on the land, they realized how valuable it was, and didn't want to part with total ownership. But it is still interesting that it jibes with the old Hawaiian system.
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Old 08-28-2010, 11:40 PM
 
682 posts, read 2,794,834 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetbeet View Post
R_Cowgirl, I would SO like to 'rep' that post, it was wonderful, but I gotta 'spread it around'. Still, REP to you!!!!
Ditto this. (I also tried & failed to rep you, R_Cowgirl!)
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Old 08-29-2010, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Moku Nui, Hawaii
11,053 posts, read 24,038,603 times
Reputation: 10911
I've been hearing talk about the heirs of the original land grant owners going to court and getting their land back. The king granted the land and in the system it was granted, the land always went to the heirs after the owners death - no matter if it had been sold to someone else in the meantime. That whole land ownership system was illegally overthrown when the monarchy was illegally overthrown so all the lands which were granted by the king are only insured by the title companies back to the time of Hawaii's statehood or when it became a territory, I forget which. Prior to that if someone has a valid claim on the land the title companies won't insure against it.

The whole history the Hawaiian islands have goes so far back before statehood that it might be one of the major reasons why it seems proper to call caucasians haoles. (to get back to the original topic of the post.)
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Old 08-29-2010, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Kūkiʻo, HI & Manhattan Beach, CA
2,624 posts, read 7,261,636 times
Reputation: 2416
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotzcatz View Post
I've been hearing talk about the heirs of the original land grant owners going to court and getting their land back. The king granted the land and in the system it was granted, the land always went to the heirs after the owners death - no matter if it had been sold to someone else in the meantime. That whole land ownership system was illegally overthrown when the monarchy was illegally overthrown so all the lands which were granted by the king are only insured by the title companies back to the time of Hawaii's statehood or when it became a territory, I forget which. Prior to that if someone has a valid claim on the land the title companies won't insure against it.

The whole history the Hawaiian islands have goes so far back before statehood that it might be one of the major reasons why it seems proper to call caucasians haoles. (to get back to the original topic of the post.)
The private ownership of land is one of the "haole concepts" that was introduced to Hawai'i. It's quite interesting how land tenure in Hawai'i went from a "feudal" system to an allodial system. Here's a link to a brief article that describes the transition in a little more detail....

http://hawaii.gov/dcca/real/real_ed/..._in_hawaii.pdf
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Old 08-29-2010, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Kauai
649 posts, read 3,444,886 times
Reputation: 473
Thanks for that link - VERY helpful and informative!
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