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Im not saying whether I agree or disagree im just saying how it is. Its like the polish complaining that the germans took over their country and how its "illegal", legality is relative to a specific nations set of laws, once a nation is taken over they are subject to new laws. Thats all im saying.
If I am paying for military conquest then I ought to enjoy the fruits of thoes dollars spent, if we cant enjoy the fruit (no pun intended lol) then we might as well have left it alone, however, we do have pavement and hotels on most of the other major islands so it was still worth it.
As far as the united nations, the united nations is not the USA and the whole thing is a kangaroo show to make a majority of nations feel as if they have some standing, but when all the cards are down the USA has 70% of the miliary weight to throw around, it may not be that way for much longer since our politicians are selling us out but for now we are still the worlds super power and people are starting to forget it.
Thats just the way it goes, its not an "attitude" issue. The USA must have had some reason for preserving the property rights of the robinsons otherwise they would not have it right now, they bought the land from another govt and the land was taken by the USA, if the USA had the political will to take that land some piece of paper the robinsons had in a safe somewhere would be irrelavent.
I simply thought it was odd that they were allowed to keep such an island, the fact that its not a paradise is probably the reason. I may not know much hawaiian history but I think some on here need to take some world history lessons or even just watch some history channel, once you watch some history channel you will be thankful the hawaiian and polynessian people even exist to this day and that they have preserved their culture, most other nations other than the USA are not so forgiving of such decention as seen on these forums.
No state can successfully be ran with too much disention and the USA is on that cusp, this dicussion is an example of that, everyones representitives jockying for control, we are barely united.
Im not saying whether I agree or disagree im just saying how it is. Its like the polish complaining that the germans took over their country and how its "illegal", legality is relative to a specific nations set of laws, once a nation is taken over they are subject to new laws. Thats all im saying.
If I am paying for military conquest then I ought to enjoy the fruits of thoes dollars spent, if we cant enjoy the fruit (no pun intended lol) then we might as well have left it alone, however, we do have pavement and hotels on most of the other major islands so it was still worth it.
The stealing of Hawai'i wasn't exactly a "military conquest" by the United States -- it's a more of a bailment situation in which the property was never returned. For example, suppose that you put eight uncut diamonds in a safe deposit box at a branch of your local bank for safekeeping. The bank's management decides that it wants to keep the diamonds. When you go to retrieve your diamonds a couple of years later, the manager of your local bank tells you that your diamonds have been transferred to the bank's headquarters. You contact the president of the bank and he says, "Those diamonds belong to the bank, we got them from our branch." You decide to sue; however, the bank manages to delay the court case until you pass away a few years later. Your heirs press on and the court tells them that there was no "theft" and even if there was a "theft", they have no standing because the diamonds weren't stolen directly from them.
In the meantime, the bank has seven of the diamonds cut and polished. Some are even set in jewelry and put on display; however, one of the diamonds remains uncut. One day, a bank stockholder (that wasn't even born when the bank acquired the diamonds) demands to see the uncut diamond. The bank refuses. The shareholder fumes that he should get to see the uncut diamond because some of his money helped the bank to get the eight diamonds in the first place. What would your heirs think of this "Johnny-come-lately" bank stockholder when they haven't been able to see the uncut diamond themselves?
Quote:
Originally Posted by highlife2
As far as the united nations, the united nations is not the USA and the whole thing is a kangaroo show to make a majority of nations feel as if they have some standing, but when all the cards are down the USA has 70% of the miliary weight to throw around, it may not be that way for much longer since our politicians are selling us out but for now we are still the worlds super power and people are starting to forget it.
Thats just the way it goes, its not an "attitude" issue. The USA must have had some reason for preserving the property rights of the robinsons otherwise they would not have it right now, they bought the land from another govt and the land was taken by the USA, if the USA had the political will to take that land some piece of paper the robinsons had in a safe somewhere would be irrelavent.
In 1898, when Hawai'i was annexed by the United States, the owners of Ni'ihau were subjects of the United Kingdom, not the United States. Since the United States was involved in the Spanish-American War at the time, it probably didn't want to give the United Kingdom a pretext to join in by abrogating the property rights of its subjects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by highlife2
I simply thought it was odd that they were allowed to keep such an island, the fact that its not a paradise is probably the reason. I may not know much hawaiian history but I think some on here need to take some world history lessons or even just watch some history channel, once you watch some history channel you will be thankful the hawaiian and polynessian people even exist to this day and that they have preserved their culture, most other nations other than the USA are not so forgiving of such decention as seen on these forums.
Hawaiian culture has never been static. One only need to look at portraits and photos of some of the Hawai'i ali'i (royalty) to realize that they were heavily influenced by Christian church and British monarchy. In addition, the ali'i tended to marry foreigners with abandon. It was only a matter of time before someone with mostly foreign bloodlines would've been proclaimed "king" or "queen" of Hawai'i. As for Ni'ihau, it was heavily influenced by the New Zealand "ranching culture" that the "Sinclair-Gay-Robinson" clan brought with them. While the culture of Ni'ihau is not "traditionally" Hawaiian, it is "uniquely" Hawaiian and worth trying to preserve.
"History" is a peculiar thing because the "winners" are the ones that often get to tell the story. There are always multiple perspectives with it comes to history and only when all of the stories are heard does true picture begin to emerge. When it comes to Ni'ihau, there are the stories of the "Sinclair-Gay-Robinson" clan, the people of Ni'ihau, the Kingdom of Hawai'i, the Provisional Government of Hawai'i, the United States, and one Pāpapa Kepahuli (and his wife Kameali'i).
The OP is someone who posts regularly on other Hawaii forums just to flame and incite. They've earned derogatory names on some of those other public forums. Best to simply ignore it.
And don't turn this into a haole/local thing. The OP is simply playing with you, and you're buying it, hook line and sinker.
Yeah, it sounded trollish from the start, but hey, I got a rep point (thanks, todd00!) from my long rebuttals.
I wondered how highlife2 had so many reads, turns out he's in Alaska and on the Alaska forums. Then I realized how active the Alaska forums are, and everybody there has lots of views. I guess they spend more time indoors :-)
Mod note: ................closed....this thread.......?
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