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Jeez....put the bike lane on the other side of the parked car, and put a curb between the two. Even a small one. Damn. It's not that hard to figure out. As it is, you need to be a super-alert athletic 20-something with full gear to ride a bike in the U.S. Imagine going for a casual bike ride with the entire family on bikes??!! Pure suicide.
I should probably mention that I had a friend that was killed while riding her bike in a MARKED bike lane in DC. The bike lane was on the far right. To her left was a garbage truck who decided to make a right hand turn without checking their mirror.
You can show me all the studies in the world, but from my personal experience, I would never ride my bike on the road. Like I said, the few times I did, I was almost hit on multiple occassions.
I should probably mention that I had a friend that was killed while riding her bike in a MARKED bike lane in DC. The bike lane was on the far right. To her left was a garbage truck who decided to make a right hand turn without checking their mirror.
You can show me all the studies in the world, but from my personal experience, I would never ride my bike on the road. Like I said, the few times I did, I was almost hit on multiple occassions.
Yes. ^
I repeat: hundreds (plural) of stitches (to my face), multiple broken bones and dislocations, extensive dental surgeries, permanent loss of feeling to half my face, permanent motor-control related brain damage, over 150 operations, procedures, appointments, therapies -- sunny afternoon in no traffic -- drunk driver out of nowhere. You all want to ride your bikes in traffic? I won't include the graphic photos my attorney has filed. Unlike Becca's most unfortunate friend, I will collect a bundle of insurance. Tough way to earn a living, though. No amount of money is worth what I have gone through and will continue to live with. Though I am lucky to be alive at all.
newUHprof wrote: "Legal is not the same as safe." So I have to ask whether it's safe to walk your "skittish" dog on the sidewalk?
I guess I don't get your point. Should I be walking her in the street instead? Or... what? What is my option here?
But yeah, it's totally safe if not for the bikes. She's on leash, and a bit afraid of things wooshing by. When the bus or a big truck goes by, she jumps. But the bus / big truck are not going by her ON THE SIDEWALK, so she doesn't jump in front of them. She jumps off to the side & looks around for a second, and then we continue on. She's not afraid of pedestrians or kids or other dogs or anything like that. But bikes... bikes go wooshing by her on the sidewalk and she jumps. It's only a matter of time until she jumps in front of one. Is the danger here because of me & my dog? Or because of jerks riding their bikes fast on the sidewalk?
newUHprof wrote: "Should I be walking her in the street instead? Or... what? What is my option here?"
This is the exact cluelessness and selfishness that people accuse bicyclists of having. How about: short leash, trained dog, full owner control? If those are not possible, the dog shouldn't be in situations where lack of them causes a problem for anyone. Yes, the cyclists are being reckless (though hopefully wreckless), and they should both yield to pedestrians with their dogs and cycle defensively (in such a way as to not scare people or animals that may jump out at them). But in my mind dogs should not in any way impede other sidewalk users either, and that includes when a common situation such as a bad cyclist may occur.
I don't mean to be picking on you, because your dog sounds gentle and well behaved, and it is an unfortunate, involuntary, and even understandable reaction. It is a much bigger problem with others: dogs running up to small kids, long leashes tangled around others, growling and barking at people and other dogs, etc, not to mention dogs on beaches and in parks where they are forbidden. Then there is the whole problem of leashed and unleashed dogs in yards, in truck beds, etc. But like the car culture, the dog culture is another where I just live at let live.
However, let me ask you this: if a bicyclist whooshes by your dog, causing him to jump out and make the cyclist crash and be injured, how do you think the damages will be settled by adjusters or in court or mediation? I am not a lawyer, but I would say responsibility would be about 50-50. And since human injuries are valued more and cost more, you could be paying out of pocket.
newUHprof wrote: "Should I be walking her in the street instead? Or... what? What is my option here?"
This is the exact cluelessness and selfishness that people accuse bicyclists of having. How about: short leash, trained dog, full owner control? If those are not possible, the dog shouldn't be in situations where lack of them causes a problem for anyone. Yes, the cyclists are being reckless (though hopefully wreckless), and they should both yield to pedestrians with their dogs and cycle defensively (in such a way as to not scare people or animals that may jump out at them). But in my mind dogs should not in any way impede other sidewalk users either, and that includes when a common situation such as a bad cyclist may occur.
I don't mean to be picking on you, because your dog sounds gentle and well behaved, and it is an unfortunate, involuntary, and even understandable reaction. It is a much bigger problem with others: dogs running up to small kids, long leashes tangled around others, growling and barking at people and other dogs, etc, not to mention dogs on beaches and in parks where they are forbidden. Then there is the whole problem of leashed and unleashed dogs in yards, in truck beds, etc. But like the car culture, the dog culture is another where I just live at let live.
However, let me ask you this: if a bicyclist whooshes by your dog, causing him to jump out and make the cyclist crash and be injured, how do you think the damages will be settled by adjusters or in court or mediation? I am not a lawyer, but I would say responsibility would be about 50-50. And since human injuries are valued more and cost more, you could be paying out of pocket.
THIS!!!
I also wanted to add that there is a big difference between responsible cyclists and irresponsible ones. It seems that newUHprof is only focusing on the irresponsible ones.
Yes, I almost always rode my bike on the sidewalk. But like I said, I treated myself as a pedestrian. That meant stopping at all lights, stop signs, only going when I had a walk signal, crossing in marked crosswalks, etc. I also was aware that I was sharing the sidewalk with others. I never buzzed by anyone. If I was coming up behind someone and felt they weren't aware, I would let them know I was coming up on them - "bike behind you on your right" etc.
My main point is that just because some cyclists ride on the sidewalk, doesn't mean they're irresponsible or unaware of their surroundings. I took extreme care in my own safety and others. When you have a friend die by a mode of transportation you use regularly, you make sure you know what's going on around you.
And I also own 3 dogs, one of which is extremely skiddish around strangers or new situations. When I take them for walks, he is never put into a situation where he could harm someone by the leash or anything - if I'm coming up on people, I hold his leash short and tight so he is only within my control.
I thought this was an interesting article with actual data regarding sidewalk accidents versus rising on the streets. Full of graphs and data - the net is that riding on a sidewalks is significantly higher than riding on a street. I'm interested in seeing analytic data from the sidewalk riders.
I thought this was an interesting article with actual data regarding sidewalk accidents versus rising on the streets. Full of graphs and data - the net is that riding on a sidewalks is significantly higher than riding on a street. I'm interested in seeing analytic data from the sidewalk riders.
You seem to be stuck on these "articles" which are really just websites posted by your average joes.
I find it interesting that you ignore the fact that 2 people on just this thread have documented instances of negative effects of riding bikes on the road...
You seem to be stuck on these "articles" which are really just websites posted by your average joes.
I find it interesting that you ignore the fact that 2 people on just this thread have documented instances of negative effects of riding bikes on the road...
Seems like he'd fall into more into an expert category than an average joe.
My point is - I've provided fact an not gut feel that riding on a sidewalk is dangerous. Also, I never said riding on the road isn't dangerous either. But I do know riding on a sidewalk is banned in much of the world for a reason - it isn't safe for the biker or pedestrian. Furthermore, I'd suggest to any person riding a bike - if you don't feel safe riding on the road (busy traffic, not enough room, no bike path, etc) - riding on a sidewalk isn't a good alternative - you shouldn't ride in those circumstances. Sidewalks are for pedestrians. They were never made for bikers.
The whooshing bicycles. Maybe because they build them for speed and racing in the U.S.?
Here in japan, I walk with my 2-year-old on the sidewalk. Most bicyclists here ride old granny bikes with a basket - despite their age or gender. There is also a mandatory (by law) bell you have to put on the bike. If you come up behind someone, you ring that to acknowledge your behind them.
Most people slowly go around walking pedestrians on sidewalks. I notice teenagers (like anywhere) seem to be the only half paying attention while riding.
It sounds like Hawaii is lacking the bells, and maybe lacking your average generic bike that takes effort to whoosh past someone.
Last edited by Tiger Beer; 12-29-2011 at 06:28 PM..
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