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I understand why this gets said over and over but I think it is just an anomaly of the way we do accounting. To say that Honolulu doesn't have an Asian majority is like saying Pittsburgh isn't majority white because you break everyone down into Byzantine, Carpatho-Russians, Croatians, Greeks, Hungarians, Irish, Italians, Jewish, Polish, Scottish, Serbians, Slovaks, and Slovenians. Take a Itallian-Greek-Croation with a Native-American great grandpa to Hawaii and what is he... Haole. Take 70% of Hawaii's population and put them in Pittsburgh and they would be considered Asian-Americans (or possibly Mexicans LOL).
There are more Asians in Hawaii than any other demographic - if not for the tourists, it wouldn't seem so noticeable.
Asian Alone: 37.7%
White Alone: 26.6%
Two or more races: 23.1% (The gray area)
Native Hawaiian and other pacific islander: 10.0%
Everyone else: 2.6%
I understand the census numbers. I referred to Honolulu specifically because Urban Honolulu has a distinct asian majority according to the census (about 55%). So it seemed strange to me that people said you needed to leave Honolulu to experience the Asian influence on the culture.
What I am generally saying is people self-identify differently in Hawaii than they do in most other places in the U.S. because ethnicity is still so actively held on to despite many generations in what is now the U.S. These are self-identified divisions on the census where you just get a box to fill, it is not like ancestry.com is giving genetic tests to everyone in Hawaii. I know people who are Japanese/Chinese with a Hawaiian great grandma that identify as mixed-race. They are free to do so, but their genetics are about 90% from Asia and they look Asian to most any objective observer just like most white people with a Native American great grandma just look white. If African-Americans and Hispanics self-identified the way people in Hawaii do they would all be mixed race and so would a lot of white people.
What I am also saying is that most of those two or more races folks in Hawaii would are still considered Asian-American in this country. Just like the President Obama or Lenny Kravitz are considered black (and identify as such as far as I know).So if you are talking about, as this thread does, if a place feels Asian... I think that Hawaii (and Honolulu specifically) feels very Asian because about 75% of the population is at least part Asian and probably is predominately Asian if you really traced their roots and Asian traditions and cultural practices are everywhere.
Even most hapa actors and actresses are referred to as Asian-American. Consider the following celebrities...
I understand why this gets said over and over but I think it is just an anomaly of the way we do accounting. To say that Honolulu doesn't have an Asian majority is like saying Pittsburgh isn't majority white because you break everyone down into Byzantine, Carpatho-Russians, Croatians, Greeks, Hungarians, Irish, Italians, Jewish, Polish, Scottish, Serbians, Slovaks, and Slovenians. Take a Itallian-Greek-Croation with a Native-American great grandpa to Hawaii and what is he... Haole. Take 70% of Hawaii's population and put them in Pittsburgh and they would be considered Asian-Americans (or possibly Mexicans .
Well, in Census terms, Asians are 37.7% of the Hawaiian population, and by definition that's a minority... less than 50%.
What's confusing to people is that it is the largest minority, and we're used to the largest group being the majority. So this situation is what political analysts are now referring to as a majority-minority.
What I find odd about this whole conversation about Asian culture is that it seems to me like just an artificial construct.
There is a distinct Japanese culture, Filipino culture, Chinese culture, Vietnamese culture... and the way they have blended in Hawai'i, to the extent that they have blended... I think the salad bowl metaphor is more fitting than the old one of a melting pot... plus major contributions from Native Hawaiian culture... make up what I call Hawaiian culture. It's unique, it's unlike any other state in the US, or any other place on earth, when you get down to it.
And since scientifically we are all members of the same race, the human race, and old fashioned ideas that we're separate races have been thoroughly disproven, hopefully we can soon stop dividing people by how they look.
Meanwhile I won't walk into a Chinese restaurant and order Japanese food, because there are distinct cultural differences between them.
I referred to Honolulu specifically because Urban Honolulu has a distinct asian majority according to the census (about 55%). So it seemed strange to me that people said you needed to leave Honolulu to experience the Asian influence on the culture.
It seems strange to me as well. Compared to urban Honolulu, Waikoloa, Kīhei, and Princeville don't seem very "Asian."
Quote:
Originally Posted by UHgrad
What I am generally saying is people self-identify differently in Hawaii than they do in most other places in the U.S. because ethnicity is still so actively held on to despite many generations in what is now the U.S. These are self-identified divisions on the census where you just get a box to fill, it is not like ancestry.com is giving genetic tests to everyone in Hawaii. I know people who are Japanese/Chinese with a Hawaiian great grandma that identify as mixed-race. They are free to do so, but their genetics are about 90% from Asia and they look Asian to most any objective observer just like most white people with a Native American great grandma just look white. If African-Americans and Hispanics self-identified the way people in Hawaii do they would all be mixed race and so would a lot of white people.
Nowadays, those "Japanese/Chinese folks with a Hawaiian great-grandma" are equally prone to identify as "native Hawaiian," considering that they're "one-eighth Hawaiian" by blood.
Nowadays, those "Japanese/Chinese folks with a Hawaiian great-grandma" are equally prone to identify as "native Hawaiian," considering that they're "one-eighth Hawaiian" by blood.
Hey don't hate... my kid is 1/16th and would take a scholarship to Kamehameha schools if available. LOL
But yeah, it is an thing of status to be considered native Hawaiian these days so I'm sure that impacts how people choose to self-identify.
Well, in Census terms, Asians are 37.7% of the Hawaiian population, and by definition that's a minority... less than 50%.
What's confusing to people is that it is the largest minority, and we're used to the largest group being the majority. So this situation is what political analysts are now referring to as a majority-minority.
What I find odd about this whole conversation about Asian culture is that it seems to me like just an artificial construct.
There is a distinct Japanese culture, Filipino culture, Chinese culture, Vietnamese culture... and the way they have blended in Hawai'i, to the extent that they have blended... I think the salad bowl metaphor is more fitting than the old one of a melting pot... plus major contributions from Native Hawaiian culture... make up what I call Hawaiian culture. It's unique, it's unlike any other state in the US, or any other place on earth, when you get down to it.
And since scientifically we are all members of the same race, the human race, and old fashioned ideas that we're separate races have been thoroughly disproven, hopefully we can soon stop dividing people by how they look.
Meanwhile I won't walk into a Chinese restaurant and order Japanese food, because there are distinct cultural differences between them.
Majority-minority (in the U.S.) typically just means that there are more non-white people than white people in whatever boundaries you are designating. It can be used for religions etc... (like Utah and mormons) but typically it just means majority non-white. Hawaii, as a state is about 77% non-white (majority-minority) and most of the non-white residents look like they have significant Asian heritage... that's all I'm saying. I understand the census numbers say the state is just over 1/3 Asian but nobody walking around looking at peoples faces would think that it was that low, especially in Honolulu. To the average "mainland" person it feels very Asian, even my Filipino buddy from Virginia was shocked when he came to visit... first thing out of his mouth was "Damn, everybody is Asian out here".
I agree that you don't walk into a Chinese restaurant and order Japanese food (except in places where you have Asian restaurants that serve both)...
At the same time, I wouldn't walk into an Italian restaurant and order a latke or a pierogi either. I agree that there are distinct Asian cultures... but Asians are not any more unique or distinct with their cultures than other groups of people. You are right that the specific mix of cultures in Hawaii and the circumstances under which they came to mix are unique. But of those "white" people on the "mainland" had ancestors that came from somewhere else, spoke their own language, ate their own food, played their own music etc... before they became American too. Many came as dirt poor immigrants working in coal mines, steel mills, farm labor, or other jobs where they had to learn to interact with different groups of immigrants as well. That's why I used Pittsburgh as an earlier example.
That is all I'm saying, it is not unique to Hawaii... most of North and South America is some sort of melting pot or salad bowl in the last 500 years of human history due to immigration, colonialism, and unfortunately the legacy of slavery. Folks in Hawaii just identify very strong with ethnicity still despite many of the families having been in the islands for 4 or 5 generations already. Nothing wrong with that, I'm just saying it impacts how they self-identify on the census or what they view as multi-racial. It also impacts how Asian the culture feels, many folks still identify strongly with their Asian roots even though they are locals first in Hawaii.
I get what you are saying overall, I think that racial classification is quickly becoming obsolete too. I understand that there are socioeconomic reasons why the classifications are still important but as people mix more they will hopefully be less and less distinct and useful. The amount of different cultures we try to throw under the Hispanic label makes it almost meaningless, the white label assumes assimilated American mutt already and leaves out recent immigrants or long time residents that still ethnically identify, the Asian label includes about 1/2 of the worlds population with hundreds of unique cultures, the African-American label is people who for the most part were stripped of their original cultures, and 2 or more races doesn't really provide much useful info either. I've got a child that is verifiably of Chinese, Italian, Japanese, German, Hawaiian, Spanish, Native American, Afro-Caribbean, Irish, Belgian, French, Ashkenazi Jewish, Iranian, and North African descent. What box(es) am I gonna check for her on the census and what useful info does it provide to demographers? LOL
Im sorry i have a real issue with this nothing is unique culture wise and we are all one race stuff.
1) It doesn't solve anything, in fact it keeps us from discussing what real issues are. Often used as a way to deflect looking at inequalities.
2) If it is true that we are all the human race and just one? We don't act like it and we wouldn't have a million people in africa dying of hunger or aids every year while we throw away enough food to feed everyone. If we were one race in our countries we call free? Minorities wouldn't be the poorest people and the ones filling up our prison populations or dying on the streets, if we were one we wouldn't be expecting cultural assimilation but cultural pluralism. It just goes on and on. Once we can learn to treat everyone as one human race then we can be honest and say we are one race etc. Thou treating everyone with equality and respect as if we are one people, children under god is desireable and needed. We can even choose to live this mantra
In our personal lives, but its just a mantra tell we as the world treat everyone with equal love that we treat ourselves. To ignore injustice and equality in the name of "we are one people or race" while in reality we are not equal hides an agenda in my opinion.
You want an example of how Hawaii or Asian cultural in Hawaii is unique? Just take a look at Marcus Mariota, which in my opinion is a true example of a local and a young man raised in the values of local and Hawaiian Cultures.
Im sorry i have a real issue with this nothing is unique culture wise and we are all one race stuff.
Who said there is nothing unique culture wise? Nobody in this thread... I said that the specifics of Hawaii are very unique, but the circumstance of a bunch of immigrants from different unique cultures coming to a place and figuring out how to live together is not unique at all... it happens all over.
OpenD thinks it's very unique and I agree...
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD
There is a distinct Japanese culture, Filipino culture, Chinese culture, Vietnamese culture... and the way they have blended in Hawai'i, to the extent that they have blended... I think the salad bowl metaphor is more fitting than the old one of a melting pot... plus major contributions from Native Hawaiian culture... make up what I call Hawaiian culture. It's unique, it's unlike any other state in the US, or any other place on earth, when you get down to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UHgrad
You are right that the specific mix of cultures in Hawaii and the circumstances under which they came to mix are unique.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaiian by heart
1) It doesn't solve anything, in fact it keeps us from discussing what real issues are. Often used as a way to deflect looking at inequalities.
I don't think the thread had any social justice intent. Someone wanted to know if the culture had a lot of Asian influence and we are over-analyzing the hell out of how Asian it feels. LOL. The gist of my response is that the majority of people in Hawaii look Asian to me and that Asian influence on the culture widespread and ubiquitous rather than some isolated pockets here and there. I think that a tourist coming to Hawaii from the "mainland" (I am assuming this describes the OP) would find it very Asian compared to what they are probably used to in another state.
Hey don't hate... my kid is 1/16th and would take a scholarship to Kamehameha schools if available. LOL
But yeah, it is an thing of status to be considered native Hawaiian these days so I'm sure that impacts how people choose to self-identify.
Other than being useful to teach the mathematical concept of "fractions" to elementary school students, the whole "blood quantum" thing is kind of silly. While I have enough Hawaiian "blood" to qualify for Hawaiian home lands, many members of my ʻohana don't. For generations, my ʻohana has hanaied children of Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Pilipino, and other ancestries and raised them all as "Hawaiians." There are plenty of folks in Hawaiʻi that appear "Asian," such as Auntie Pat Bacon, who are "culturally Hawaiian." Thus, assuming "cultural heritage" from genotype in Hawaiʻi can be somewhat misleading. While various "Asian" cultures, "Asian American" subcultures, and "local" culture in Hawaiʻi might appear somewhat similar, they are all quite different from each other.
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