Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So much of Hawaii's economy is driven by tourism, but where does each tourist dollar go? They fly in on United, Continental, Alaska Air, etc. None of that money stays in Hawaii. Not sure who actually owns Hawaiian Air, they hire folks and have offices here. Then the tourists rent a car from Avis, Hertz, etc. Other than a few jobs cleaning cars and checking them in and out, not much money stays in the state or filters to the workers from that. Then the tourist go to a hotel in Waikiki. Any of them owned locally? Nope. All that money then immediately leaves the state and the only jobs are for hotel workers. If the tourists go to a mom and pop restaurant or take a tour with a locally owned company, then finally some of the tourist dollars are directly benefiting the local economy. Although a lot of the restaurant food is bought from the mainland.
That is a really flawed argument. Most of the money, regardless of "ownership" stays in the state.
Hawaiian Airlines is no different than United (there is no longer Continental), Alaska Airlines, American Airlines, etc - they are all publicly held companies.
Same goes for Hawaiian Electric, Bank of Hawaii, First Hawaiian Bank, Hawaiian Telcom, Matson, and on, and on, and on - all publicly traded like United Airlines and not locally owned. Should we boot all of them also?
I thought it was great to hear the experts admit that majority of the condos being built in Kakaako where going to foriegn investors. Further what was also interesting was the ideal and concepts of what is affordable for buying homes. Me personally if one has to get into debt to pay for anything its not affordable. Further, i thought the vocational/education expert was kinda whistling in the dark regarding education. Theres no real high tech or Manufacturing in hawaii. But the ideal of collective bargaining for housing is also thinking outside the box. But i have to agree that any new ideals will take a few generations to see any changes for locals. I see hawaii in the next generation as a place where only the well to do will be able to live.
@Op great topic and video best ive seen in awhile.
Not exactly a new discussion, anyone read The Price of Paradise, 2 volumes written in 1993?
"One of Hawaii’s leading economists, Paul Brewbaker, put a number on the “paradise tax” back in 1992. He said at the time that it cost almost 40 percent more to live in the Aloha State than the mainland, on average.
Brewbaker told Civil Beat last week that his best guess of where Hawaii stands today would be 25 percent, the low end of a historic range dating back to the 1960s.
“Relatively speaking, it’s never been that much cheaper in Honolulu than now but it has been way more expensive, historically, from cycle to cycle, as in the Japan Bubble of the late-1980s,” Brewbaker said.
I always get a good chuckle from people who have never owned a small business and paid employees thinking that they can solve all the world's problems by jacking up the minimum wage. They usually have no idea that in addition to wages the employer has to pay outrageous insurance premiums (worker's comp, unemployment, other state-mandated programs and fees) and various taxes that sometimes total more than the wage itself. Not to mention the rent. I met a guy who complained about how much a used couch cost at a consignment store and after I explained that at nearly $3/square foot the owner was paying, giving a slim margin of only inches for people to walk around the couch it was costing the owner of the store $150/month to keep the couch there. If it didn't sell within 30 days the rent on the floor space of the couch was going to cause the owner to take a loss. Now add the minimum wage $25/hour (real cost) to keep a single employee at the store (but they need three of them minimum at a time) 16 hours a day, 7 days a week ($8,400.00 per week), its a miracle a used couch doesn't cost three thousand dollars. Now... lets jack up the minimum wage.
There is a reason why its called "minimum wage" and not "living wage". There are teenagers living with parents, almost-full-time-stay-at-home parents looking for part-time work etc that don't need to make a living wage. Not everybody needs to make a living wage. Let me repeat that: NOT EVERYBODY NEEDS TO MAKE A LIVING WAGE. And they help to keep used couches from costing $3,000.00 and the reason why we have dollar menus at the drive through. Some people work FOR FREE! It's called an internship, or volunteering, and its 100% legal. Some people work because they are building experience, education, or have other reasons why they don't need $25/hour.
If you have $6,000.00 to spend on a used, nasty stained couch, may I invite you to instead open up a store and pay all of your employees a minimum wage of $25.00 an hour plus all the insurances, taxes, fees, utilities, lot rent, and other encumbrances that come with it. Though in the end, you probably will not be able to afford that couch.
Last edited by terracore; 04-07-2015 at 10:32 PM..
Will Our Children Ever Be Able to Afford to Live in Hawaii?
I would be willing to say a good number of the of them will be able to live in Hawaii.
Maybe a little under half will have to re-locate back to the mainland. It will be similar to today.
Where you will have generations living in the same house and pooling there
wages to pay the bills and taxes.
Will Our Children Ever Be Able to Afford to Live in Hawaii?
I would be willing to say a good number of the of them will be able to live in Hawaii.
Maybe a little under half will have to re-locate back to the mainland. It will be similar to today.
Where you will have generations living in the same house and pooling there
wages to pay the bills and taxes.
Statistically the number of people born in Hawaii in 1990 on Oahu vs today is about the same in terms of percentage of the population. So, don't expect much change. In 2045, someone will post another expensive to live in Hawaii thread.
Then they can move on to rent controls like NYC has done for generations, for the benefit of vast numbers of people would never be able to live there otherwise.
Rent Control in NYC. As a person who lived in NYC for a few years, it would be nearly IMPOSSIBLE for an average person to find a rent control apartment. You basically have a much higher chance of winning the lotto than being able to find something like that.
Rent Control in NYC. As a person who lived in NYC for a few years, it would be nearly IMPOSSIBLE for an average person to find a rent control apartment. You basically have a much higher chance of winning the lotto than being able to find something like that.
Boy Howdy! Do you ever have that right! I've never been to NYC, but I have a friend in Berkeley, CA who has lived in her rent controlled apartment for 28 years. It's a dive of a place, too, because the landlord would much rather the tenants moved out so he could sell the place for a massive profit, so he only takes on maintenance issues when they're so bad that the City makes him.... But still, she tells me she'll move out when she's dead and buried somewhere else . In the mean time, since she's near the university, she rents out her spare room to students, who are willing to pay her monthly rent because it's far cheaper than any other housing option in the area. Since she's also allowed to sublet the entire apartment, she says that if she ever actually goes anywhere else long-term, she'll still keep the apt. in her name while she sublets to someone else. For people without the means (she's disabled, and disability doesn't pay much) to move to a nicer, more expensive place, rent-controlled housing is worth its weight in gold.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. In the mean time, since she's near the university, she rents out her spare room to students, who are willing to pay her monthly rent because it's far cheaper than any other housing option in the area. Since she's also allowed to sublet the entire apartment, she says that if she ever actually goes anywhere else long-term, she'll still keep the apt. in her name while she sublets to someone else. For people without the means (she's disabled, and disability doesn't pay much) to move to a nicer, more expensive place, rent-controlled housing is worth its weight in gold.
