Hidden taxes in Hawaii

[Mikala43]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

I didn't overlook it - I thought this was a GET discussion - State DOT is self funded, doesn't get the revenue from GET.

The items in my previous post are mostly funded by GET.

I've already said several times - you want to cut waste and stop the mispending, you have to start with with a union overhaul - just not wanting to pay it isn't part of a solution.

The really, really is a huge part of it.

[Kalei]

@Mikala43

I wantted to support your post about paying too much in taxes. I postted a post yesterday that had stats on taxes paid per capita or person per state. The problem is it didn't get on the thread. Something to do with it needs to be reviewed. Anyway to support what your saying. The average taxpayer in the country pays 2,542.00 in taxes.In Hawai'i it's 3,961.00. But what is even more shocking is to take a look at population. In Hawai'i we have about 1.5 million people on our islands and we pay an average of 3,961.00 a year. But take Florida for example they have over 20 million people which is almost 16 times the people of Hawai'i, Which means 16x the schools. services etc. They pay 1,708. Same with other states with about the same population, we still pay more.

Also I would like to see better roads, infrastructure and libraries too. I would also like to add that I would like to see historical places like Kayoto Gardens Pangodas restored(Its a shame how they let such a gorgeous monument go to ruin). Today our government focuses to much on redevelopment and light rail but forgets that the heart of Hawai'i is both in the past, present and future.

Oh the tax stats are from 2012. The most recent stats on the issue.

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by Kalei

@Mikala43

I wantted to support your post about paying too much in taxes. I postted a post yesterday that had stats on taxes paid per capita or person per state. The problem is it didn't get on the thread. Something to do with it needs to be reviewed. Anyway to support what your saying. The average taxpayer in the country pays 2,542.00 in taxes.In Hawai'i it's 3,961.00. But what is even more shocking is to take a look at population. In Hawai'i we have about 1.5 million people on our islands and we pay an average of 3,961.00 a year. But take Florida for example they have over 20 million people which is almost 16 times the people of Hawai'i, Which means 16x the schools. services etc. They pay 1,708. Same with other states with about the same population, we still pay more.

Well, lets start with just how flawed the above statements in the context you have put it in - (Florida is so tax cheap compared to Hawaii).

The numbers you have put forth only deal with State tax revenue (as in collected by the State itself). In a State that 1) Has no State Income taxes such as Florida and 2) Pushes the burden of taxes to counties/cities (Florida) compared to Hawaii where the State has the burden of collecting most of the money - it will of course not be a apples to apples comparison.

I'm happy to provide an example: Property Tax. The average property tax rate in Florida is a whopping 1.1% and gets even higher in places like Miami which is 1.24%. Your numbers don't include those tax burdens.

That rate on a median single family home on Oahu would more than $7,000 on property tax alone.

As another example - The State of Florida itself does not fully fund schools - While the State provides some funding - local property taxes are a key funding source for Florida schools. The State of Hawaii fully funds DOE.

And Florida has gambling and a lottery - revenue not included above.

So, now that we've shown an apples to apples comparison is not possible - lets look at an analysis with State and Local Tax burdens and the real reason why Hawaii actually feels more pain.

The burden of State and local taxes in Florida on a household when all sources is considered is about 9%, which puts them about 10th in the nation. Better than Hawaii but not unexpected in a southern red state.

In Hawaii, the burden is about 10.3%, again on a household) and just on that number ranks it about 20th nationally. On the surface that doesn't seem terrible. (Illinois is in last at over 14%).

But here is why we feel so much more pain. It comes down to cost of living and household income.

Florida has a median household income of about $47K vs. $70K in Hawaii. When you account for cost of living adjustments Hawaii's rank goes from middle of the pack to 49th. Florida stays about the same and Illinois improves.

The bottom line - the household income is higher (more taxes) but the cost of living is so much more dramatically higher - so every dollar taken is that much more painful.

However, if every household in the US made about the same and had about the same cost of living, Hawaii would be in the top half for least taxed - but since we don't have the same cost of living or same median incomes, it feels worse.

And by the way (again) - Florida has gambling and the lottery, you want lower taxes Hawaii, put that here. The lottery is huge in Florida and also provides a lot of funding to the school system.

[Kalei]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

Well, lets start with just how flawed the above statements in the context you have put it in - (Florida is so tax cheap compared to Hawaii).

The numbers you have put forth only deal with State tax revenue (as in collected by the State itself). In a State that 1) Has no State Income taxes such as Florida and 2) Pushes the burden of taxes to counties/cities (Florida) compared to Hawaii where the State has the burden of collecting most of the money - it will of course not be a apples to apples comparison.

I'm happy to provide an example: Property Tax. The average property tax rate in Florida is a whopping 1.1% and gets even higher in places like Miami which is 1.24%. Your numbers don't include those tax burdens.

That rate on a median single family home on Oahu would more than $7,000 on property tax alone.

As another example - The State of Florida itself does not fully fund schools - While the State provides some funding - local property taxes are a key funding source for Florida schools. The State of Hawaii fully funds DOE.

And Florida has gambling and a lottery - revenue not included above.

So, now that we've shown an apples to apples comparison is not possible - lets look at an analysis with State and Local Tax burdens and the real reason why Hawaii actually feels more pain.

The burden of State and local taxes in Florida on a household when all sources is considered is about 9%, which puts them about 10th in the nation. Better than Hawaii but not unexpected in a southern red state.

In Hawaii, the burden is about 10.3%, again on a household) and just on that number ranks it about 20th nationally. On the surface that doesn't seem terrible. (Illinois is in last at over 14%).

But here is why we feel so much more pain. It comes down to cost of living and household income.

Florida has a median household income of about $47K vs. $70K in Hawaii. When you account for cost of living adjustments Hawaii's rank goes from middle of the pack to 49th. Florida stays about the same and Illinois improves.

The bottom line - the household income is higher (more taxes) but the cost of living is so much more dramatically higher - so every dollar taken is that much more painful.

However, if every household in the US made about the same and had about the same cost of living, Hawaii would be in the top half for least taxed - but since we don't have the same cost of living or same median incomes, it feels worse.

And by the way (again) - Florida has gambling and the lottery, you want lower taxes Hawaii, put that here. The lottery is huge in Florida and also provides a lot of funding to the school system.

Very thoughtful argument. I don't however understand how one pays taxes has anything to do with the fact that per capita Hawai'i citizens pay more per year on a state level then most? The argument of Florida having lottory and gambling to help fund the state is interesting. But again you could argue that Hawai'i gets a lot federal aid money to fund state level projects , more so then a lot of states. Again bringing to light the mismanagement of government. Especially for a state of our size and population.

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by Kalei

I don't however understand how one pays taxes has anything to do with the fact that per capita Hawai'i citizens pay more per year on a state level then most?

Here is a shorter version for you. Because Hawaii collects most of its taxes at a state level while other states distribute taxes at a city and county level and aren't reflected as state revenue.