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Now if you want to count counties in states I'm sure the figures would be different?
Shall we start here?
City and County of Honolulu: Population: 953,000 Homeless: 4,900
City and County of San Francisco: Population 837,000 Homeless 7,500
Of course, anyone who lives on Oahu knows the homeless is spread across the entire island and that anyone who lives in Multnomah County knows the homeless are in Portland.
But, it is funny someone would suggest all these "cities and towns" on Oahu - I've yet to run across the Mayor of Ewa Beach, or - a Pearl City Police Officer/Force - etc - get it......
City and County of Honolulu: Population: 953,000 Homeless: 4,900
City and County of San Francisco: Population 837,000 Homeless 7,500
Of course, anyone who lives on Oahu knows the homeless is spread across the entire island and that anyone who lives in Multnomah County knows the homeless are in Portland.
But, it is funny someone would suggest all these "cities and towns" on Oahu - I've yet to run across the Mayor of Ewa Beach, or - a Pearl City Police Officer/Force - etc - get it......
whatevahs you play with your words. I have been respectful of you and haven't attacked you personally. I've debated your facts that's all. if that's a source of contention for you please don't engage in debate. As for your comment. Well your right but also wrong. Places like Ewa Beach and Pearl City are not cities or towns in the traditional government sense. The island of Oahu and outlying islands are a municipal corporation on the government level but for practical purposes places like Ewa Beach and Pearl City are unlike districts of the city of Honolulu like kaimuki, Waikiki, Monoa etc too nor are recognized by those living in Oahu as districts of the city of Honolulu.
I hope some day you will quit attacking people who live on island and those who have lived on island who you feel threatened by and respect everyone for there knowledge and experience. Like I said b4 you are awsome at stats and general moving topics. Good day to you sir.
If you don't like the comparison between The City and County of Honolulu and The City and County of San Francisco just say so - it is what it is.
Anyone who spends time in Seattle, San Francico, Las Vegas, and Portland knows the homeless density is higher in those cities
You haven't lived here for what 30 years? You actually have to be here on Oahu and see those other cities to understand it isn't all that bad here compared to those other cities.
I'm sorry but a lot of your comment is like the rumors we heard in the papers and other sources that most of the homeless in Oahu and Honolulu are from the mainland and were shipped by other cities to Honolulu which just wasn't fact.The truth about homelessness in Honolulu is it's going to continue to rise with the continue rise in housing costs, the lack of affordable housing and the continue rise in population. This is the real true issue of the rising homeless populations across the country. The issue of COFA is just a smoke screen because unfortunately in the rest of the country homelessness has been a migration issue, a majority of the population moves around from city to city and state to state. Not so in Hawai'i which is more then thousands of miles away from any land mass. Majority of Hawai'i homeless are Hawai'i citizens or transplants. Not vagabonds or outsiders the some want others to believe. Unfortunately until we in society recognise the continue widening gap between the have and havenots the problem will continue to rise. I also would just like to put out a question for others on this thread to think about and I ask what is different now that Hawai'i has such a bad homeless problem when just 10 years or more ago our homeless problem wasn't even a blimp?
We also used to fund mental health institutions in the past. Not so much today.
Oh and PJ I believe a lot of other issues your right on
I do understand there are a lot of locals that are homeless (these people represent a large percentage of the "chronically" homeless population) but we cannot ignore the fact that there is a very significant number of homeless here that are recent transplants or immigrants. It is difficult to get people to be sympathetic towards those that make extremely irresponsible decisions... like moving from a city with a relatively low COL to one with the highest COL in the nation and then becoming homeless inside a year or two. There are thousands of homeless here that literally got off a plane and went straight to a shelter. Can anyone be sympathetic towards that?
Of course there is always the legitimately down and out homeless that struggled for years to keep a roof over their heads but a consistent string of bad luck (yes, some people are actually homeless no fault of their own) put them into a position where they can no longer shelter themselves according to the minimum requirements of society. This is a group, in particular, that people will have the most sympathy for. We can never lose that compassion towards this group just because there is a minority (or perhaps even majority) that casts a negative veil/perception over all homeless people.
A disproportionate percentage of the local homeless population (when compared to transplants and immigrants) suffer from untreated psychiatric illnesses including schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and severe depression. Many abuse drugs and alcohol as a result of their psychiatric illnesses. It is how they cope. These people are incapable of holding a job; even the most menial jobs. You have to realize that for many of these homeless people, $300/mo studios (and all the affordable housing in the world) is not going to get them off the streets. These people need psychiatric treatment and care.
The sad reality is that as society evolves through technological evolution, the homeless population will continue to rise. There will be more and more of them as once plentiful labor-based jobs (requiring little intelligence) are superseded by jobs requiring comprehensive education and mental prowess. Those people born into the world with limited intelligence will struggle more and more as the world evolves. As the less fortunate are incapable of competing in any existing job market, they can no longer support themselves; many will end up homeless. There is simply no escaping this.
Comprehensive policies of returning recently homeless transplants or immigrants to their native homes should be in place. Govt should increase support for housing and care/treatment for those chronically homeless suffering from mental illness. Those that are most severely mentally ill need to be removed from the street and provided treatment as they can often be a danger to themselves and the public. And yes, affordable housing is always important in all societies regardless of the severity of the homeless problem.
Regarding your question as to why the homeless population seems to be an issue today and not so much 10+ years ago is an easy one. The internet, social media and 24/7 streaming news networks has allowed the issue to be more "in your face" than in the past. A lot of homeless people actually have cell phones and internet access these days. Studies show that more than half of the homeless population currently have cell phones with cameras/video and internet capabilities. 15 years ago the amount of homeless with cell phones was pretty much zilch. Actually, it was zilch. People are talking about the homeless issue now more as there is a stronger sentiment today of a "rigged economy" where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. In some ways, it is more "acceptable" to be homeless today than in the past. Today you are a victim... whereas in the past you were just a failure as a human. Again, the internet has helped to spread this sentiment. Today, one can youtube "what it's like to be homeless" and see thousands of videos of people documenting homeless lifestyles. In the past this was entirely nonexistent.
Homelessness is much more relatable to humans today than in the past thanks to technology. The irony is that technology will actually only make the problem worse.
I do understand there are a lot of locals that are homeless (these people represent a large percentage of the "chronically" homeless population) but we cannot ignore the fact that there is a very significant number of homeless here that are recent transplants or immigrants. It is difficult to get people to be sympathetic towards those that make extremely irresponsible decisions... like moving from a city with a relatively low COL to one with the highest COL in the nation and then becoming homeless inside a year or two. There are thousands of homeless here that literally got off a plane and went straight to a shelter. Can anyone be sympathetic towards that?
Of course there is always the legitimately down and out homeless that struggled for years to keep a roof over their heads but a consistent string of bad luck (yes, some people are actually homeless no fault of their own) put them into a position where they can no longer shelter themselves according to the minimum requirements of society. This is a group, in particular, that people will have the most sympathy for. We can never lose that compassion towards this group just because there is a minority (or perhaps even majority) that casts a negative veil/perception over all homeless people.
A disproportionate percentage of the local homeless population (when compared to transplants and immigrants) suffer from untreated psychiatric illnesses including schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and severe depression. Many abuse drugs and alcohol as a result of their psychiatric illnesses. It is how they cope. These people are incapable of holding a job; even the most menial jobs. You have to realize that for many of these homeless people, $300/mo studios (and all the affordable housing in the world) is not going to get them off the streets. These people need psychiatric treatment and care.
The sad reality is that as society evolves through technological evolution, the homeless population will continue to rise. There will be more and more of them as once plentiful labor-based jobs (requiring little intelligence) are superseded by jobs requiring comprehensive education and mental prowess. Those people born into the world with limited intelligence will struggle more and more as the world evolves. As the less fortunate are incapable of competing in any existing job market, they can no longer support themselves; many will end up homeless. There is simply no escaping this.
Comprehensive policies of returning recently homeless transplants or immigrants to their native homes should be in place. Govt should increase support for housing and care/treatment for those chronically homeless suffering from mental illness. Those that are most severely mentally ill need to be removed from the street and provided treatment as they can often be a danger to themselves and the public. And yes, affordable housing is always important in all societies regardless of the severity of the homeless problem.
Regarding your question as to why the homeless population seems to be an issue today and not so much 10+ years ago is an easy one. The internet, social media and 24/7 streaming news networks has allowed the issue to be more "in your face" than in the past. A lot of homeless people actually have cell phones and internet access these days. Studies show that more than half of the homeless population currently have cell phones with cameras/video and internet capabilities. 15 years ago the amount of homeless with cell phones was pretty much zilch. Actually, it was zilch. People are talking about the homeless issue now more as there is a stronger sentiment today of a "rigged economy" where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. In some ways, it is more "acceptable" to be homeless today than in the past. Today you are a victim... whereas in the past you were just a failure as a human. Again, the internet has helped to spread this sentiment. Today, one can youtube "what it's like to be homeless" and see thousands of videos of people documenting homeless lifestyles. In the past this was entirely nonexistent.
Homelessness is much more relatable to humans today than in the past thanks to technology. The irony is that technology will actually only make the problem worse.
My only issue i have have is often what is said doesnt not match up with stats or reality. No offense but for example.
Service providers say 40 percent of Hawaii's homeless people are working at least part-time, 30 percent need some housing assistance and 30 percent have mental health or substance abuse problems that prevent them from maintaining a home.
Statewide, 12-15,000 people are homeless at some point of the year.
At least 6,300 are homeless at any given day.
11% of those living without housing are children.
32% of the homeless are of Native Hawaiian ethnicity.
22% of Hawaii’s homeless have some form of employment.
Also I believe you misunderstood me I was asking people why homelessness rates in Hawai'i today and recently are record breaking vs 2000 and before? What are we doing differently? Don't get me wrong I believe your technology theories are part of the problem but I think the bigger answer is the cost of living and the price of housing, stagnant wages and just plain greed. Granted Hawai'i doesn't have a reputation for being pro business but at the same time the tourism trade isn't suffering. Anyway another topic for another thread
I'm curious as to why you would count Oahu a whole island with many towns to a single city like S.F or Seattle? Honolulu the city not county population is approximately 337,000 residents with approximately 5,000 homeless people?
Since you asked, let me break it down.
Of the approximately 4,900 homeless on Oahu:
About 2,000 are in Honolulu properand 2,900 are on the rest of Oahu. So if you want to refer to just "Honolulu" homeless, the 2,000 number would be more accurate. The biggest difference between Oahu and the rest of island is Honolulu proper bears the bulk of unsheltered homeless - thus is more visible.
If you lived on Oahu, you would know most homeless are not in Honolulu city limits.
Of the 4,900 homeless - about 1,000 have a serious mental illness (probably can't work), 770 have a substance abuse disorder (probably can't work), 50 have HIV/Aids (probably can't work). Now bring in the COFA immigrants (probably 50%) and you don't have a lot of homeless at all due solely to economic circumstances
About 2,000 are in Honolulu properand 2,900 are on the rest of Oahu. So if you want to refer to just "Honolulu" homeless, the 2,000 number would be more accurate. The biggest difference between Oahu and the rest of island is Honolulu proper bears the bulk of unsheltered homeless - thus is more visible.
If you lived on Oahu, you would know most homeless are not in Honolulu city limits.
Of the 4,900 homeless - about 1,000 have a serious mental illness (probably can't work), 770 have a substance abuse disorder (probably can't work), 50 have HIV/Aids (probably can't work). Now bring in the COFA immigrants (probably 50%) and you don't have a lot of homeless at all due solely to economic circumstances
You do understand that HUD studies on the homeless are not accurate despite being official. It's said they can be off up to 40% since majority of the homeless are unaccounted for. Enough Said.
Let me explain, most of the homeless population you don't see because they camp out in areas where most don't see them or to avoid police harassment.
It's said they can be off up to 40% since majority of the homeless are unaccounted for.
This is what we call Even If
Even If they undercounted by 40% (very unlikely on a tiny island) in the city limits of Honolulu, you'd have 2,800 homeless - not 5,000 as you've stated before.
My only issue i have have is often what is said doesnt not match up with stats or reality. No offense but for example.
Service providers say 40 percent of Hawaii's homeless people are working at least part-time, 30 percent need some housing assistance and 30 percent have mental health or substance abuse problems that prevent them from maintaining a home.
Also I believe you misunderstood me I was asking people why homelessness rates in Hawai'i today and recently are record breaking vs 2000 and before? What are we doing differently? Don't get me wrong I believe your technology theories are part of the problem but I think the bigger answer is the cost of living and the price of housing, stagnant wages and just plain greed. Granted Hawai'i doesn't have a reputation for being pro business but at the same time the tourism trade isn't suffering. Anyway another topic for another thread
But I agree with some of what your saying.
I don't think stats (when compared to stats from years back) have much relevance as we didn't have a homeless task force and people actually counting the number of homeless with the same granularity in the past. The resources we are allocating to survey and conduct studies on our homeless population today dwarf that of the past.
I think the number of mentally ill is being far under reported. Once you remove the immigrants (COFA) and recent transplants (those that move to Oahu to literally live on the beach BY CHOICE), I'd say over 75% of those homeless suffer from some form of mental illness. Task forces don't want to admit this because their main focus is trying to establish the need for more taxpayer funded housing when in reality we need to be allocating more resources toward mental health care and rehabilitation.
The price of housing is a byproduct of the demand for long term and short term habitation on our island - it is not fueled by greed. By global standards, Honolulu is an extremely desirable place to live. There are simply more people that want to live here than current housing can accommodate; that drives up prices. It's supply and demand - this has absolutely nothing to do with greed. And cost of living is high here because we are smack in the middle of the world's largest ocean. We are extremely isolated. It takes A LOT of effort to get anything to our tiny island in the middle of nowhere.
People complain about the lack of high paying jobs which makes it difficult to survive here with our extremely high COL. But if the tech industry, for example, decided to move to Oahu (which could happen in 20 or 30 years) prices across the board would probably double from here. Solving one problem simply creates another.
Here's what no one is saying. When you create a rich persons paradise it raises everyone's rent and cost of living period. I don't buy the paradise argument or the supply and demand argument. Any undesirable place can be made intio a rich, yuppy paradise. Good example is Portland and now kakaako.
I appreciate both you gentlemans opinions. But I also have to acknowledge that both of you gentleman are also involved in the tourism trade and rental housing markets so your point of views are understandable. Mahalo for your time and commitment to the forum even if we might not agree in issues.
Last edited by Kalei; 05-04-2016 at 12:38 AM..
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whatevahs you play with your words. I have been respectful of you and haven't attacked you personally. I've debated your facts that's all. if that's a source of contention for you please don't engage in debate. As for your comment. Well your right but also wrong. Places like Ewa Beach and Pearl City are not cities or towns in the traditional government sense. The island of Oahu and outlying islands are a municipal corporation on the government level but for practical purposes places like Ewa Beach and Pearl City are unlike districts of the city of Honolulu like kaimuki, Waikiki, Monoa etc too nor are recognized by those living in Oahu as districts of the city of Honolulu. 
