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I think i would just ask bias aside, is there any truth to the the claims etc, minus the fact that you may lose property or that you maynt like the old monarchy government, or your personal feelings towards anyone. Yes or no, was the Hawai'ian kingdom overthrown? Was there really a legal treaty of anaxation? (not the congressional joint resolution). So if i understand international law, if the annexation was illegal, then everything after would be voided? Yes? Lili`uokalani Agreement, Restoration Agreement with the president are the only legal agreements that are legal, everything by the acting government by the ones who overthrew the Queen is also illegal? Correct?
I think i would just ask bias aside, is there any truth to the the claims etc, minus the fact that you may lose property or that you maynt like the old monarchy government, or your personal feelings towards anyone. Yes or no, was the Hawai'ian kingdom overthrown?
That's not clear. It all depends on whose version of the story you believe.
The dominant view, preferred by the sovereignty advocates today, is based on the Blount Report of 1893. Chief among the criticisms of that report is that it was prepared quickly, in secret, based on informal interviews with a few of the author's friends, and was written by someone who was opposed to the US taking control of Hawai'i. Basically it painted the picture of a brutish overthrow of a legitimate government. The immediate effect of the Blount report was to get him appointed by the President as acting envoy to Hawai'i, and to set off actions to restore the Queen. But once the Blount Report was made public many of the people who had spoken to Blount recanted what he said they had told him.
Lesser known is the Morgan Report of 1894, which concluded an official Congressional investigation into the matter, partly because its view contradicts several of the sovereignty movement's most cherished beliefs. Another factor in its relative obscurity compared to Blount is that while the Blount report was digitized and put online by the University of Hawai'i early in the internet era, and thus was readily available for perusal and analysis as a resurgence in interest in Hawaiian sovereignty was occurring, the Morgan Report, for many reasons - including a lack of funding, and a disastrous flood of the archives - was not digitized and put online until many years later, and neither was it available in physical form. So Blount was accessible, Morgan was not, but ultimately Morgan had more impact on the following events.
Although controversial in its own right, with an absence of unanimity, and various majority and minority opinions, the Morgan Report was much more carefully and systematically investigated than the Blount Report, being conducted in a series of public hearings with witnesses being deposed under oath. You can read much more about it at the link below, but basically it said that due to Liliuokalani's revolutionary attempt to overturn the 1887 Hawaiian Constitution, which she was sworn to protect, many of the Hawaiian people considered that she had effectively abdicated her monarchy, and so there was no legal monarch in power on January 17, 1893.
Because Liliuokalani had lost power, Hawai'i was considered to be in interregnum, meaning in a gap between one legal regime and another, as happens after a monarch dies. Without an active and legitimate Executive Department (the Monarch), there was no enforcement of the law, and thus no protection of the rights of American citizens living there. In an increasingly tense situation troops from the USS Boston were brought ashore, in case they would be needed to protect American citizens and their interests if the situation turned violent... as it had on three previous occasions. There not only was no violence, but the troops were non-threatening and respectful, even saluting Liliuokalani and dipping the American flag to her as they marched past.
Executive summary: Liliuokalani was no longer the Queen on January 17, 1893 when Americans stepped in to quell the mounting risk of a violent revolution.
And while the Blount report began an effort in the US to restore Liliuokalani to the monarchy, the Morgan Report effectively ended that effort. It caused President Grover Cleveland to abandon his support for the former Queen, and to begin to treat the Provisional Government and Republic of Hawai'i as lawful successors to the monarchy.
And everything else you asked about branches off from there. If there was no monarchy to overthrow, there is no monarchy to restore. And if that is so, the US treaties were therefore with a legal government, etc. etc. etc.
Apology, definition: the regretful acknowledgement of having caused an offense, injury, or failure.
"I'm sorry you got hurt" is not an apology. There's no acknowledgement of accepted responsibility.
Forgive, definition: a) to stop feeling anger or resentment toward someone for their offense, flaw, or mistake, b) to give up the right to punish
Ideally the two are in a dance with each other. It's difficult to forgive when there is no apology offered, so negative emotions become solidified or frozen in place. That can lead to a loss of aliveness and joy, and in worst cases to tragedy, warfare. But apology can create the space for forgiveness to occur in, and for harsh emotions to melt.
Then it's important for an apology to be accepted, and forgiveness to be offered in return, in order to create the space of freedom and co-operation, and end the circle of negative emotion for everyone's benefit, so Aloha will arise.
Am I talking about recent actions in this thread, or about the last 120 years of Hawaiian political history?
I have seen no mention of financials in this thread. I would suggest looking at the financials of the state. There may be other CAFRs that would be relevant in this situation (county, city etc...).
Learning how the creative accounting works for these is essential imo. This is the state CAFR. Pg 41 is the first place I would go. Though it claims unaudited. http://ags.hawaii.gov/wp-content/upl...r-20120630.pdf
But neither Kawena nor Hawaiian by Heart have apologized for implying that I use drugs and that it has affected my mental ability. Worse, they've made fun of me for how I feel about being attacked in this way.
sorry I can't help you.. if you got issues. they're yours... like I said you shouldn't mislead people..
Regarding #282, yes it would depend on which "offical report" you want to believe. Hmmm its interesting that there was two reports? Wonder why the do over? The info i got was its the morgan report that was false and made up by someone with personal agandas.
Sorry definition: Feeling or expressing sympathy, pity, or regret: I'm sorry I'm late.
Admends Defined:
1. To change for the better; improve: amended the earlier proposal so as to make it more comprehensive.
2. To remove the faults or errors in; correct. Or how i like "set right the wrongs".
Big difference between the two. And are we talking 100+ years ago or now?
Last edited by hawaiian by heart; 10-01-2013 at 11:30 AM..
great post...... Osama was guilty.. of what US law?
Keanu has to play the "GAME" the US imposes its game on foreign soil...
do you deny the overthrow?
Nope. The Kingdom of Hawaiʻi was "overthrown" more than once. The "1887 Overthrow" in which the "Bayonet Constitution" was imposed upon Kalākaua represented as much of a loss of Hawaiian sovereignty as the "1893 Overthrow" of Liliʻuokalani. Some Hawaiians, such as Robert Wilcox, were so dissatisfied with Kalākaua that they plotted to replace him with Liliʻuokalani.
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