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What you fail to grasp is you are talking about a group of people who showed up from somewhere else and got lucky in a canoe. . They stumbled on it. That's it. Quite frankly a group of savage people defining a "culture" isn't necessarily a good thing.
When you travel thru Oahu for example, does it look like Hawai'i? Or does it resemble more like any Mainland city or Town? Or does it look like asia?
One of the known lifestyle positives of the local hawaii island culture is its laid back attitude or style of take it easy slow life? I ask is this still true, or is it getting faster and faster, acting like mainland? These are just some examples. I would be upset with any native who would hurt the aina etc etc. It just appears that i pick on western culture because as a whole it emphasis more on I instead of we, and has caused more damage to native people and there countries.
As for native hawaiian culture, ask yourself why now do we have to teach olelo hawaii in schools? Why in the 1970s we could only find 14 individuals who could speak it fluently. Then ask yourself why and who?
I don't hate anyone, i hate behaviors.
Doesn't matter one iota that Asians migrating to Hawaii change the culture for the better vs mainland Whites. Mainland Whites that are US citizens have more right to be there than an immigrant from Asia. BTW, Asian immigration is changing and has changed the mainland as well. Do Asian immigrants change the dominant Western Culture in NYC, Philadelphia, etc.? You bet. Chinatown in NYC is huge, and you wouldn't even feel like you were in NYC, yet it is a fantastic place and NY'ers are proud of it.
Just get over the fact that Hawaii is gonna change and you have no control over it.
How come the same is not demanded of the people that move to my region from Puerto Rico or foreign countries? Why does the other end of the phone always say "push 1 for Spanish", etc.? The retort you will hear is that "well, we (Puerto Ricans) are US citizens and have every right to keep our culture". My state was founded as a British Colony and British culture was seeped into the fabric of the city. Then loads and loads of immigrants came and dramatically changed the place.
Well then, let me ask you why a New Yorker, who happens to be just as much as an American as any American living in Hawaii, and by rights in the Constitution has just as much right to live and act they want within the law in Hawaii, has to assimilate to your culture. They don't. They are American and it is currently American territory. An American has the right to bring their New York culture and lifestyle to Hawaii, period. Actually, it is just as much their island as yours. The US Constitution as interpreted by the Supreme Court states that no state can deny residence to any American that has lived in the state for more than 30 days.
If hundreds of thousands of White mainlanders one day decide they want to live in Hawaii, and flood your island over night and change it, too bad. That is history and demographics. No one here in Philadelphia demanded that the hundreds of thousands of African Americans that moved here during and after WWII change to meet our culture. They changed the culture of our city whether we liked it or not. That is the way America works. Things change and places change. If you don't want that, then you have to have your state leave the Union. Simple as that.
In 1900 the US was 90% white, and now it is around 66% White. No other country has gone thru such a demographic change so quickly in the history of the world. Our immigration laws were radically changed in 1965, and America has pretty much embraced the idea, and has no plans to alter dramatically the immigrant stream. Hawaii needs to suck it up and realize it is going to change, or quit the nation. You don't get to keep rules no one else in America gets to keep.
I'd say Hawaiian culture has already been changed a lot by mainlanders. English is the dominant language, there are chain stores from the mainland, same television as the rest of the country. I'm sure Hawaii will continue to change and evolve, but why not try to preserve some of the culture that makes it unique?
I'd say Hawaiian culture has already been changed a lot by mainlanders. English is the dominant language, there are chain stores from the mainland, same television as the rest of the country. I'm sure Hawaii will continue to change and evolve, but why not try to preserve some of the culture that makes it unique?
Exactly! Mahalo
Hawaiian being local hawaii culture, the blending of everyones culture.
Not jusf native hawai'ian.
Last edited by hawaiian by heart; 03-28-2014 at 10:52 AM..
I'd say Hawaiian culture has already been changed a lot by mainlanders. English is the dominant language, there are chain stores from the mainland, same television as the rest of the country. I'm sure Hawaii will continue to change and evolve, but why not try to preserve some of the culture that makes it unique?
Why just Hawaiian culture? Every part of the country has changed and continues to change. What happened to Cajun culture in Louisiana? How do you propose preserving it?
Why just Hawaiian culture? Every part of the country has changed and continues to change. What happened to Cajun culture in Louisiana? How do you propose preserving it?
I believe what your misunderstanding is hawai'ian culture is local hawai'ian culture. The blending of all cultures in Hawai'i. Native Hawai'ian culture is the Native Culture, hula girls, language etc.
Change is going to happen, just like what denverian said and i say once in awhile. Look at local hawai'ian culture, thats an example of change. Nothing wrong with change. Thats not what we are talking about. What we are talking about is preserving local culture.
You mentioned cajon culture and N.Y. Sure preserve it but the difference is this and im going to ask you a question, "what laws have been put into place in Hawai'i that have effected or diminished the cultures established on the islands for decades? Who initiated it?" Unlike N.Y city or New Orlenes etc.
What you fail to grasp is you are talking about a group of people who showed up from somewhere else and got lucky in a canoe. . They stumbled on it. That's it.
Wow, relativistic culture. By your logic, everyone comes from somewhere else, therefore there is no culture. United states has no culture because it was settled by religious extremists and losers (what, couldn't make it in their own country?). Europe has no culture because roving bands of barbarians and before that neanderthals. Asia has no culture because we all know some homo sapiens, barely even sapiens sapiens, migrated out of Africa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whtviper1
Quite frankly a group of savage people defining a "culture" isn't necessarily a good thing.
That is the most racist thing I've read from you. You got all caught up in this Amerika-uber-alles thread, and now instead of arguing for manifest destiny (America won, we get to invade), you are literally claiming that the Hawaiians were savages and had no culture. And we all know that the logic is that savages don't deserve to have their own land, it must be taken from them (we are morally superior, we must invade). And you seem to be claiming that Americans are still today morally superior and justified in taking over.
When Captain Cook arrived, the Hawaiians were essentially living in the stone age. Yet they were modern, intelligent humans who had developed a complex society. They didn't have the resources on the island to develop technology, yet they were able to farm and feed a hundred thousand people with stone and wood tools. They also made boats and sails and were expert navigators in these rough waters where people don't go without a motor today. On top of that, they had developed a complex language with many levels of understanding and used it in chants and dances.
There were a lot of western influences at this time, but they were freely adopted into the Hawaiian culture, not imposed. When written language was introduced, Hawaii had very high rates of literacy, and many newspapers in Hawaiian. The royals mimicked the British system because it resembled their own ideas of nobility and hierarchy. Once the western ways were adopted by the Hawaiian leaders, Hawaii flourished as independent country. San Francisco and Honolulu were founded around the same time, and for a long time, Honolulu was the more cosmopolitan city.
Wow KauaiHiker - I don't have time for it at the moment, you need to do some serious reading on the people who landed on these islands - a truly brutal people - and you make some real leaps about me claiming "Americans are still today morally superior and justified in taking over.", how you come up with that gem is quite imaginative.
Try a little reading on Kapu - that'll be a good start, unfortunately (well, fortunately for me) I'm off to the Bay Area this afternoon but exposing all this brutality pre-Cook will likely wait until next week. If you weren't born into the right class (most weren't by the way) it was a terrible way of life. A truly savage way of life.
If you think it was some peaceful life in pre-Cook days - and dancing around with one big group hug, you'd be quite mistaken.
Also, try a little reading on how destructive they were to the land during the pre-Cook days.
Do some research.
Last edited by whtviper1; 03-28-2014 at 12:06 PM..
This thread has gone way off topic, and I think has reached it's end.
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