Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
as I understand it, the virus was so successful at first it didn't need to mutate. Now we have the British, South African and Brazilian.
at least in some trials, most notably in Israel where the British mutation was prevalent, some of these vaccines have shown that they protect against the British strain.
Mutations aren't caused by "need". They are random events, although some types are more likely to occur than others. The organism doesn't "know" any particular one will be more beneficial than another, and most are detrimental.
They are genes. You do not get to change the definition of a gene.
You are taking advantage of readers who don't understand genetics. Every gene has markers. Single gene disorders involve an entire gene; like Cystic Fibrosis. Chromosomal disorders involve an entire chromosome; like Down Syndrome. Genetic variants involve markers; little pieces ON the genes that contribute to multifactorial disorders, where environment adds a trigger for disorders. Like alcoholism; where just because you have a genetic predisposition, doesn't mean you will die of alcoholism, because you can choose to limit your environmental exposure to alcohol. Having the markers doesn't doom you to being an alcoholic. Nobody is born an alcoholic. No child diagnosed with Regressive Autism is born regressed; that's ridiculous. My child's head circumference was normal in utero & normal at birth. "Big heads" do not cause anything, no matter how much you'd like to insinuate they do. Does being 85 "cause" covid? No, it is associated with a higher risk from covid which is caused by a virus. Does having certain genotypes ON the ACE2 gene cause covid? No, one has to be exposed to it in their environment & then they are at a higher risk from covid.
I'm choosing not to address your challenges here on a thread about the Moderna. It's one thing for me to state why I choose not to vaccinate but it's another for you to attack my choice by turning it into an autism debate. My autistic child is diagnosed as vaccine injured, by an Immunologist with decades of experience but you are attacking me? You are trying to derail the thread & I'm not playing.
Last edited by coschristi; 03-27-2021 at 08:54 AM..
I'm choosing not to address your challenges here on a thread about the Moderna. It's one thing for me to state why I choose not to vaccinate but it's another for you to attack my choice by turning it into an autism debate. My autistic child is diagnosed as vaccine injured, by an Immunologist with decades of experience but you are attacking me? You are trying to derail the thread & I'm not playing.
Hey cos, I know we have different opinions about vaccinations; I'm not an anti-vaxxer. However, if I went through what you did, I very well may have a different opinion. I respect your opinion regarding vaccines and am also in agreement with you on something I recall you stated earlier--namely that we don't know all there is to know about vaccines. This is something that I think it is foolish to deny. When I went to pharmacy school, the thing I came away there most impressed about (probably because I actually didn't really like pharmacy school as much as I did many of my other classes I took for undergrad!) is that what we know right now about the human physiology is just the tip of the iceberg. We have SO MUCH more to learn. There are DOZENS at least, probably HUNDREDS if not more receptors on cells which know very little about.
For someone to say that we have a complete and conclusive understanding of vaccines is parallel to someone saying in like the 1500s that we have a conclusive understanding that the earth revolves around the sun. Science can show us in later years that what we had thought to be true is actually not how it really does work. Surely there are examples of that out there though I can't think of any right now (there's definitely examples of things we understood in part but which now we understand better; that's just the process of learning and science enabling us to discover more intricacies of physiology).
However incomplete our understanding of vaccines are, what I think you and I may disagree about is their general safety to the public. I do think we understand enough about them so that they can be a benefit to most people. What I have changed my opinion on, however, is that flu shots (even the inactivated ones) can in no way cause people to actually get the flu. My stance on that is that in a small minority of people, somehow their physiology may allow them to get infected with that flu shot. I just hear too much of it from my patients. I used to think it was all in their heads or that they got a little sick after it and it was just them complaining about one of the normal side effects. But we just don't know all there is to know about vaccines or our own physiologies. And I am open to believing that maybe there is some way these people do get the flu from the flu vaccine. My opinion is not a strong one on that and neither am I saying, "It is definitely true that some people definitely can get the flu from the flu vaccine". I am just saying it might very well be possible.
Hey cos, I know we have different opinions about vaccinations; I'm not an anti-vaxxer. However, if I went through what you did, I very well may have a different opinion. I respect your opinion regarding vaccines and am also in agreement with you on something I recall you stated earlier--namely that we don't know all there is to know about vaccines. This is something that I think it is foolish to deny. When I went to pharmacy school, the thing I came away there most impressed about (probably because I actually didn't really like pharmacy school as much as I did many of my other classes I took for undergrad!) is that what we know right now about the human physiology is just the tip of the iceberg. We have SO MUCH more to learn. There are DOZENS at least, probably HUNDREDS if not more receptors on cells which know very little about.
For someone to say that we have a complete and conclusive understanding of vaccines is parallel to someone saying in like the 1500s that we have a conclusive understanding that the earth revolves around the sun. Science can show us in later years that what we had thought to be true is actually not how it really does work. Surely there are examples of that out there though I can't think of any right now (there's definitely examples of things we understood in part but which now we understand better; that's just the process of learning and science enabling us to discover more intricacies of physiology).
However incomplete our understanding of vaccines are, what I think you and I may disagree about is their general safety to the public. I do think we understand enough about them so that they can be a benefit to most people. What I have changed my opinion on, however, is that flu shots (even the inactivated ones) can in no way cause people to actually get the flu. My stance on that is that in a small minority of people, somehow their physiology may allow them to get infected with that flu shot. I just hear too much of it from my patients. I used to think it was all in their heads or that they got a little sick after it and it was just them complaining about one of the normal side effects. But we just don't know all there is to know about vaccines or our own physiologies. And I am open to believing that maybe there is some way these people do get the flu from the flu vaccine. My opinion is not a strong one on that and neither am I saying, "It is definitely true that some people definitely can get the flu from the flu vaccine". I am just saying it might very well be possible.
Thank you so much for your kind reply. I'm not allowed to rep you again (yet).
Your ability to incorporate & acknowledge the anecdotal reports from your patients speaks volumes & puts you way ahead of your colleagues. When the anecdotal reports persistently defy the "scientific evidence"; it's time to re-evaluate the evidence. Not starting with epidemiological (which cannot confirm nor deny causation) but with the etiological ... which can. But we have to have a full understanding of the etiology & we don't have that yet. When we do, it might change the understanding of the safety of vaccines to the general public. Or, it may not.
Until then, all I have to go on is that I found my daughter dead in less than 24 hours after her vaccines. I continued to vaccinate because according to my limited scientific education (I am an RN), that was just a coincidence. Then 11 years later, my son was vaccinated & developed encephalopathy within 12 hours & is now permanently disabled. I just don't feel like I have any other choice in the matter than to wait until there is more knowledge about vaccines. Even during covid.
Thank you again. You are like a light in a dark tunnel.
You are taking advantage of readers who don't understand genetics. Every gene has markers. Single gene disorders involve an entire gene; like Cystic Fibrosis. Chromosomal disorders involve an entire chromosome; like Down Syndrome. Genetic variants involve markers; little pieces ON the genes that contribute to multifactorial disorders, where environment adds a trigger for disorders. Like alcoholism; where just because you have a genetic predisposition, doesn't mean you will die of alcoholism, because you can choose to limit your environmental exposure to alcohol. Having the markers doesn't doom you to being an alcoholic. Nobody is born an alcoholic. No child diagnosed with Regressive Autism is born regressed; that's ridiculous. My child's head circumference was normal in utero & normal at birth. "Big heads" do not cause anything, no matter how much you'd like to insinuate they do. Does being 85 "cause" covid? No, it is associated with a higher risk from covid which is caused by a virus. Does having certain genotypes ON the ACE2 gene cause covid? No, one has to be exposed to it in their environment & then they are at a higher risk from covid.
I'm choosing not to address your challenges here on a thread about the Moderna. It's one thing for me to state why I choose not to vaccinate but it's another for you to attack my choice by turning it into an autism debate. My autistic child is diagnosed as vaccine injured, by an Immunologist with decades of experience but you are attacking me? You are trying to derail the thread & I'm not playing.
I also think it's about triggers, not something "causing" a bad reaction.
My daughter has Factor V Leiden and she did get the rare, 1 in 1000 severe adverse effect of dangerous blood clots when she took birth control. And she had the racing/thumping heart side effects after Moderna.
My son got Guillain-Barre Syndrome after a cold, but this is another severe adverse effect that can be "triggered" by a vaccine. He hasn't had genetic testing done like his sister yet.
So hopefully we'll learn more in the future as genetics are studied more so those that have certain markers can be very cautious about possible triggers.
Side note, I also haven't heard the big head theory! My smartest grandson's head is huge and my youngest grandson just had that surgery to enlarge his skull so his brain had room to grow. Guess I need to research that!
Doctors do not have to accept liability for something going wrong if go forth with the vaccine - doctors could be liable for discouraging the current best practice of getting the vaccine and results in significant issue from an infection.
Existing law is that vaccine manufactures can not be sued unless “willful misconduct” by the company. Health and Human Services ruled that the 2005 Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act applied to COVID vaccines that provides legal protection to companies making or distributing critical medical supplies, such as vaccines and treatments, unless there is willful misconduct.
Also US law prevents suing anyway under 42 U.S. Code § 300aa–22 - Standards of responsibility
The vaccines have been given EUA, full approval takes years. Few want to wait years for a vaccine that is impacting everyone right now. Th e country and the economy are in better shape the sooner we can get back to the new normal. No one wants to be wearing masks and social distancing for years. Many do not feel safe to go out until they are vaccinated. Feel free to wait years for full approval but in the meantime respect those that want to get vaccinated. If you don't get vaccinated, be ready to be subject to rules that protect others so you can't infect others.
BTW - Who cares what your employer gives you and your statement is likely false - most employers follow the guidelines. Giving 6 months pay is ludicrous, it would encourage low risk employees to get infected.
Very informative post. I tried to rec it, but it wouldn't let me. Guess I've rec'd you before.
Prior to getting her first jab, a woman asked if she'd be able to play the piano afterwards. The nurse told her "yes." She turned to her husband and said, "That's great; I couldn't play the piano before."
LOL! An oldie but a goodie, with many variations. I think it dates back to Laurel & Hardy.
Since people mention "age" frequently as a risk factor, I'd like to point out that it's not the age itself that makes the risk or getting the virus, it's that so many people over a certain age have weakened immune systems and underlying conditions. Someone who is 70 who has worked on keeping a strong immune system and doesn't have any relevant underlying conditions should not be at risk of getting it any more than a younger person in a similar physical condition.
SARS and SARS-COVID-19 mutate at typical rates for coronaviruses. People compared apples and oranges by claiming it was slow mutating by using the influenza virus as an example.
Until then, all I have to go on is that I found my daughter dead in less than 24 hours after her vaccines. I continued to vaccinate because according to my limited scientific education (I am an RN), that was just a coincidence. Then 11 years later, my son was vaccinated & developed encephalopathy within 12 hours & is now permanently disabled. I just don't feel like I have any other choice in the matter than to wait until there is more knowledge about vaccines. Even during covid.
You don't know how sorry I am to hear that. No one should ever have to experience such horror and tragedy. The closest that I've experienced is when I lost my husband mysteriously to a stroke which happened on Christmas Eve morning. But I don't know that that can compare to losing a child. I hear it is the hardest thing in the world; worse than losing a spouse. But who can compare loss though? It is all so intimate and personal and unique to each and everyone. Loss is just terrible. Death should never be; we should never be parted from those we love so much and care about so deeply as with all our heart and soul. But that is the way it is in this life. As for disability, it shouldn't be that way either. I have nothing to compare; (can only offer my sympathy which I know is useless).
My sympathy and prayers are with you; I don't know if you are religious, but I do hope that God will provide you with strength and comfort.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
