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I am more curious about the author's own psychological makeup rather than his conclusions. When people are confronted with psychological stress they tend to want to deny the origins of the stress and want to go about there daily routine which minimizes anxiety. It's easier psychologically for the doctor to tell the patient nothing and don't even render a fatal diagnosis. Just let them live out their lives not knowing they had cancer or a terminal illness. The quality of life for the remaining years would not be hindered by the negative news.
The book is mainly about people who were diagnosed with cancer and decided to go for cancer treatments. So, when all the treatments are over and done, the patient wants to know where they stand, and the doctor doesn't have the option of saying nothing, as though cancer never existed.
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If you follow that scenario however you will find that the disease or condition itself renders physical stress and by definition disease is dis-ease meaning the person will be uncomfortable. Any acute illness or chronic illness is psychologically burdensome and causes depression if not an outright illness.
It's also true that lot's of times a patient will go to the doctor with a physical concern about his or her health not knowing that it's cancer. And a diagnosis of cancer is where stress can be greatly magnified. In that case, the doctor has no choice but to tell the patient he or she has cancer.
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One of my inlaws back in the day was admitted to the hospital with symptoms of AIDS and he was diagnosed as such during that stay. My other brother-in-law wanted the doctors and nurses not to tell his brother because he felt it would scare him and make him feel worse. He wanted the nurses to hide the medical chart in the room. My brother in law was basically avoiding talking about the subject altogether. It's difficult and painful and most people want to avoid it. How can you do that?
You can't tell the doctors or the hospital how to do their job.
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If one looks at the theories of cancer out there one prominent theory is that cancer cells can be generated every day and it's our own immune system that keeps them in check every day. Another states that they don't occur every day but are generated by environmental factors which cause mutations and then go on from there. They explain that the environment can turn on or off oncogenes that might be present in the genome. In either case, there doesn't seem to be any apparent strong association with psychological affect in origins of cancer.
I would say there can be strong psychological associations. But one will only find them by looking. For example, it has been said that exercise is an important factor in cancer prevention. But to establish a regular exercise routine, one would need to feel motivated. And the same goes for eating a healthy diet. Maintaining healthy lifestyle habits requires motivation.
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Most cancer cases are not all terminal cases. The terminal cases are very advanced and really a miracle if emotion would have any significant effect on the outcome. These people are very sick and suffer from cachexia which is a wasting syndrome. There is nothing more depressing than suffering from cachexia. They are depressed because nothing is working to make them feel better. One doesn't need to tell them they are dying because they feel like they are dying.
It is overstated that telling them the truth has a huge negative impact on outcomes. It is the disease itself that carries the day with regard to outcome.
"A total of 1.9 million new cancer cases and 609,360 deaths from cancer are expected to occur in the U.S. in 2022, which is about 1,670 deaths a day."
Argiles et al. estimated that cachexia affects 50 to 80% of cancer patients and accounts for up to 20% of cancer deaths.
So there are 609,360 deaths expected and up to 20% of deaths are due to cachexia. That leaves about 80% of deaths not do to cachexia.
The only truth they should be told is that nothing more can be done by this cancer facility (or doctor in charge) to seek a cure. No one ever suggested they be told they are dying. (Everyone will die eventually.)
When a patient asks the usual question, "How much longer do I have to live?" That's where I see room for innovation. But there will never be any innovation as long as doctors believe the odds for spontaneous healing are too slim to be worth trying for.
Their mind set is: "That's not my job, and it would make me look dumb to suggest they might be able to cure themselves when I couldn't."
"One of my inlaws back in the day was admitted to the hospital with symptoms of AIDS and he was diagnosed as such during that stay. My other brother-in-law wanted the doctors and nurses not to tell his brother because he felt it would scare him and make him feel worse. He wanted the nurses to hide the medical chart in the room. My brother in law was basically avoiding talking about the subject altogether. It's difficult and painful and most people want to avoid it. How can you do that?"
You can't tell the doctors or the hospital how to do their job.
That end of my quote was a rhetorical question for those proposing not to tell people. It wasn't a question on my part on how to go about it. Some people might have misunderstood that. Some people need time to process the information in order to let the emotions settle. It obviously comes as a surprise and shock and that is the first thing they think of. They can't handle it themselves and so they need time to accept it before bringing up the issue with their loved one. That's difficult to do so I gave them space and time. He couldn't talk about the subject matter in a pragmatic way and so I moved away from that aspect.
AIDS along with SCID, David the bubble baby, gave us more insight into immunity and cancer. With cancer, the question is does it cause a lowered immunity, or does lower immunity cause cancer? The answer is both but to varying degrees with different cancers.
I didn't see any major disagreements with the rest of your comments. I can see the points you were making.
If you consider all the various illnesses you have had in your life, almost all of them probably ended spontaneously. How many times have you had a cold and it ended in about a week? How many times have you had influenza? How many times have you had some kind of gastrointestinal infection? Pretty much all of them ended by spontaneous healing.
The kind you're talking about? I'll believe it when I start to see people spontaneously regrowing amputated limbs.
According to doctor Jeffrey Rediger, M.D., spontaneous healing is not rare, it's just not talked about because doctors are not motivated to talk about it. He said they fear being looked down upon by other doctors.
From what I have read in his book, "Cured", so far it seems people cure themselves because after being told they might only have 6 more months, or possibly a year to live, they change their lifestyle hoping to make it to one year or possibly longer. Then by surprise, when they go for a regular check-up, they find out they no longer have cancer.
And there's a lot more; he has been studying spontaneous healing for over 15 years. I read his book about a year ago and just started reading it again to refresh my memory. It's very inspiring to think what control we have over our body. Imagine having been treated for cancer and you're told there' nothing more that can be done. And then, without realizing it, you end up curing yourself.
There are many people who go looking for a cure, and he gives many case histories of how they found it.
That's why the placebo effect can be a powerful healer. It's why in Indigenous societies that have preserved their healing traditions, one method that's tried, is sleight-of-hand, to trick the patient's mind into self-healing.
Spontaneous healing isn't discussed for the same reason that Near Death Experiences weren't discussed: it's not viewed as "scientific", and therefore gets defined as "woo woo". IOW, the medical establishment doesn't believe it's real and worth investigating. Same with hands-on healing.
is on the faculty of Harvard Medical School, the Medical Director of McLean SE Adult Psychiatry Community Affairs at McLean Hospital, and the Chief of Behavioral Medicine at Good Samaritan Medical Center
I think it's good that there are a few professionals, who are looking into this.
That's why the placebo effect can be a powerful healer. It's why in Indigenous societies that have preserved their healing traditions, one method that's tried, is sleight-of-hand, to trick the patient's mind into self-healing.
Spontaneous healing isn't discussed for the same reason that Near Death Experiences weren't discussed: it's not viewed as "scientific", and therefore gets defined as "woo woo". IOW, the medical establishment doesn't believe it's real and worth investigating. Same with hands-on healing.
Placebo is usually mentioned within the context of influencing subjective symptoms when dealing dealing with pain or "feeling better". Placebo are the positive effects attributed to a conscious mind. Within a placebo group or control group you will have those people but you might also have those people with "spontaneous remission" and in those who have negative effects (nocebo) or no effects at all.
The reason why doing experiments with lower back pain is so frustrating is that most people get better regardless of treatment modality so all of the above apply.
As far as the medical establishment not taking it into account because it views it as unscientific then that is situational. Most doctors are trained in conventional medicine and are obligated to practice the standard of care or their license will be taken away. So there's that and also trained to think horses and not zebras with regards to thinking about high probabilities first and not weird stuff first.
The interesting part of that is that researchers are almost the opposite of clinicians in that they are the ones who think of zebras and the weird stuff first. They will seek exceptions of cases especially spontaneous remission or cures and study them to see why.
Most of all of medicine's advances came from studying man and how the body heals itself. Man tries to reverse engineer what happened in nature with vaccines, insulin, you name it. As far as hands-on healing I have to disagree with you on them not being studied. The laying on of hands has been studied. I was on the hospital research council and voted for several studies. One was an international study involving monks from Tibet, clergy, and priest of various faiths around the world and all together praying for specific individuals with the person not knowing these individuals. Our hospital is faith-based, or I should say is, but run by a secular system hospital chain now.
I think Steve Jobs initially tried that spontaneous healing thing, even though his pancreatic cancer was the rare, and much less aggressive type, known as islet cell neuroendocrine tumor.
He delayed his treatment a whole 9-months, while relying on alternative medicine to thwart the disease. According to Harvard researcher Ramzi Amri, his choice of alternative treatment "led to an unnecessarily early death".
Barrie R. Cassileth, the chief of Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center's integrative medicine department, said, "Jobs's faith in alternative medicine likely cost him his life.... He had the only kind of pancreatic cancer that is treatable and curable.... He essentially committed suicide."
According to Jobs's biographer, Walter Isaacson, "for nine months he refused to undergo surgery for his pancreatic cancer – a decision he later regretted as his health declined". "Instead, he tried a vegan diet, acupuncture, herbal remedies, and other treatments he found online, and even consulted a psychic. He was also influenced by a doctor who ran a clinic that advised juice fasts, bowel cleansings and other unproven approaches, before finally having surgery in July 2004."
I'll believe it when I start to see people spontaneously regrowing amputated limbs.
I have had my spleen removed 40 years ago and yet it has regrown (apparently according to some hospital test I had a while ago) I cannot remember much of the details now of how much had grown back, mainly because I was getting along fine without one. So, I have spontaneously regrown my spleen - does that count?
I think 30-40% placebo effectiveness is pretty good and is often far more than the effectiveness of medications. Reportedly, one of my friends sister is a VP of a chemical company making chemotherapy drugs and she told him that 2-4% was excellent results for those. Depends on the cancer being treated of course and cancer remissions are counted after 5 years(not forever) I believe.
That end of my quote was a rhetorical question for those proposing not to tell people. It wasn't a question on my part on how to go about it. Some people might have misunderstood that. Some people need time to process the information in order to let the emotions settle. It obviously comes as a surprise and shock and that is the first thing they think of. They can't handle it themselves and so they need time to accept it before bringing up the issue with their loved one. That's difficult to do so I gave them space and time. He couldn't talk about the subject matter in a pragmatic way and so I moved away from that aspect.
AIDS along with SCID, David the bubble baby, gave us more insight into immunity and cancer. With cancer, the question is does it cause a lowered immunity, or does lower immunity cause cancer? The answer is both but to varying degrees with different cancers.
I didn't see any major disagreements with the rest of your comments. I can see the points you were making.
Here's an interesting story (I'll never forget) about a young boy who was diagnosed with AIDS in 1984. The general public, including myself, didn't know much about aids. And people were wondering how contagious it was. They wondered if you could get AIDS by drinking from the same water fountain etc..
The boy's name was Ryan White and he contracted AIDS from a blood transfusion. It was all over the news.
He didn't live anywhere near me as I lived in a very small rural town, so I never expected to see him in person. But one day I decided to go to my local supermarket and as I began to walk down one of the isles, there he was, by himself, looking at some items on the shelf. I thought, "No wonder the store is almost devoid of other shoppers." He turned his head and saw me coming and he likely wondered if I would turn and walk the other way. It did occur to me, but then I thought, "No, I can't do that to him." So I kept walking and said "Hi" as I passed by. Events like that you never forget.
Another story: My grandfather had a hospital procedure performed for an enlarged prostate back around 1949 or 1950. The procedure was successful and no cancer was found. So his family was there visiting and everyone was happy to tell him that he didn't have cancer. He didn't speak English so I guess it was left up to the family to tell him. But did he believe it? NO, because based on his previous experiences people were never told the truth. So it seems if you don't tell anyone, everyone may end up thinking they have cancer even when they don't.
Last edited by LongevitySeeker; 03-21-2022 at 09:45 AM..
If you consider all the various illnesses you have had in your life, almost all of them probably ended spontaneously. How many times have you had a cold and it ended in about a week? How many times have you had influenza? How many times have you had some kind of gastrointestinal infection? Pretty much all of them ended by spontaneous healing.
The kind you're talking about? I'll believe it when I start to see people spontaneously regrowing amputated limbs.
You're a tough customer, Jack. How about some information from a 2011 article by the National Library of Medicine.
"The spontaneous healing of cancer is a phenomenon that has been observed for hundreds and thousands of years and after having been the subject of many controversies, it is now accepted as an indisputable fact."
William Coley is mentioned in the above article and was also mentioned in the book "Cured" that I read that gave me the idea for this thread.
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