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Old 09-03-2010, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Arlington Virginia
4,537 posts, read 9,190,090 times
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After reading several books about WWII I am intrigued by the "two German cousins" Eisenhower and Rommel who presided over the rise and end of the conflict in Europe.
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Old 09-03-2010, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,122,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighteyes View Post
Did you read your own links here? From the first one:
Quote:
With 2,000 U.S. soldiers in pursuit, Joseph and other Nez Perce chiefs led 800 Nez Perce toward their friends the Crows
"and the other"...Joseph was chief of the Wallowa band, but they were but one group among several who formed the Nez Pierce.

Or:
Quote:
Although Joseph was not technically a warchief and probably did not command the retreat, many of the chiefs who did had already died
A leader, but not a war leader, and certainly not a general.
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Old 09-03-2010, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Santa FE NM
3,490 posts, read 6,511,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
A leader, but not a war leader, and certainly not a general.
Rather than attempting to explain the major differences between Euro-American and American Indian cultures, I will simply bow out. You win.

Regards,

-- Nighteyes
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Old 09-04-2010, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Houston, texas
15,145 posts, read 14,329,825 times
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Major General Terry Allen and Brigadier General Theodore Roosevelt Jr. 1st Infantry Division North Africa and Sicily. General Allen also commanded the 104th Infantry division, known as the Timberwolf Division who participated in the Battle of the Bulge. In October 1967 General Allens son Lt Colonel Terry de la Mesa Allen Jr was killed in the Vietnam War, while commanding the 2nd Battalion,28th Infantry Regiment, a unit of the 1st Infantry Division, which his father had commanded in World War II.
All distinguished themselves as combat leaders.
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Old 09-04-2010, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,122,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighteyes View Post
Rather than attempting to explain the major differences between Euro-American and American Indian cultures, I will simply bow out. You win.

Regards,

-- Nighteyes
Nonsense. Even under the Indians definition of a general, Joseph was not one.

You don't seem to get it...Joseph was not a fighting chief. The Nez Pierce were blessed with a number of excellent military strategists, Joseph was not one of them.

Might I suggest that you read a book, any of the books, on the topic.
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Old 09-04-2010, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,016 posts, read 20,907,290 times
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Lt. Gen Lucian Truscott of World War II. He led a regimental combat team of American troops in the first North African landings, then became (as a major general) commander of the 3rd Infantry Division in the Sicilian Campaign. This division, under Truscott, continued to fight in Italy, then in the Anzio beachhead, where Truscott was promoted to corps commander. He then served as a corps commander in the invasion of southern France and subsequent drive north up the Rhone Valley. Promoted to lieutenant general, he became an army commander in Italy during the closing days of the war. After the German surrender, Ike tapped him to replace Patton as an occupation army commander in the wake of Patton's big mouth causing a lot of controversy. Truscott is admittedly one of the lesser known top generals. He was not a glory hound like Mark Clark. And Italy was the forgotten front.
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Old 09-04-2010, 11:59 AM
 
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george patton and omar bradley. patton had the ability to see a situation and determine the best course of action, and he had the force of will to get the job done. when bradley was subordinate to patton he followed pattons orders, and when the roles were reversed, bradley knew when to rein in patton, and when to turn him loose. and i agree about truscott, he was an excellent general in his own right.
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Old 09-04-2010, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,016 posts, read 20,907,290 times
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Default Oops, I just got it!

I read the OP too quickly to grasp the meaning, especially inasmuch as "paired" was mis-spelled as "pared". Hence my post on Truscott was actually off-topic. Sorry. However, it's pretty humorous to imagine the "pared" generals!

But back to the paired generals: Eisenhower and George Marshall. Both hard-working, dedicated, rational, and professional. Even though Ike was overseas and Marshall was in Washington, I consider them a pair, as they were constantly in touch and their close cooperation with each other was critical to the war effort in Europe. Contrast that smooth cooperation with the relationships which the vainglorious and petulant MacArthur had with other top commanders, with the exception of his air force chief, whose name escapes me right now.
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Old 09-06-2010, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
10,261 posts, read 21,753,123 times
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Sheridan and Wright. Wright commanded the Sixth Corps and worked well under Sheridan in the Valley. Wright was one of the capable and energetic new corps commanders (Humphreys, Griffin, Parke and Merrit being the others) who finally got the Army of the Potomac off it's dead ass and by the Appomattox campaign turned it into a very hard hitting and fast moving army; the best of the war perhaps.

That's high praise from an Illinoisan.

Ord did wonders with the Army of the James too but that's another story.
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Old 09-07-2010, 12:26 AM
 
Location: Turn right at the stop sign
4,699 posts, read 4,041,142 times
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Here is the first of two pairings of generals that I think worked fairly well:

Paul von Hindenburg and Erich Ludendorff – Paul Von Hindenburg was from an aristocratic Prussian family and entered the Prussian Cadet Corps at the age of eleven. He fought and was wounded during the Six Weeks War with Austria in 1866, and fought again in the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-71. Though he served in a variety of command and staff positions and retired in 1911 with the rank of lieutenant-general, his forty year military career was fairly unremarkable. The medals he wore on his uniform were, as one person stated “the minimum consistent with his rank”. When war broke out in August 1914, von Hindenburg repeatedly sent letters to those friends he had left in the German Army, expressing his willingness to return to duty and serve his country. His letters were accepted courteously but without comment.

Erich Ludendorff was also born in Prussia but not to people of wealth and privilege but rather small business owners. Still, he chose to pursue a military career. In 1904, after completing officer training, he was called to Berlin to serve on the General Staff, serving in Section II, which dealt with mobilization and deployment plans. This was an area in which Ludendorff excelled and by 1908 he had been placed in charge of Section II which was the most desirable post after that of Chief of the General Staff. Ludendorff was tasked with refining the Schlieffen Plan and during this time, he became convinced that Germany did not have adequate resources to rapidly defeat France as per the plan. When his concerns fell on deaf ears, he circumvented his superiors and made direct contact with politicians to lobby for larger military expenditures. This move immediately put Ludendorff at odds with the General Staff and he was transferred out of Berlin. He was first given command of a regiment in Dusseldorf, then later promoted to general and placed in charge of a brigade in Strasbourg. Finally, at the end of July 1914, he was named Quartermaster General of the German Second Army.

Had it not been for a single event at the start of the First World War, Ludendorff’s career may have been as undistinguished as von Hindenburg’s. As the Germans began to assault the Belgian city of Liege, Ludendorff was touring the lines and came across a brigade whose commanding officer had just been killed. Ludendorff immediately took charge, led the brigade forward, and captured the assigned objective which opened the way for the Germans to capture the city. For his actions, Ludendorff was personally awarded the Pour le Merite by the Kaiser. Ludendorff suddenly found himself the focus of attention by the General Staff, but this time in a more positive light. Helmut von Moltke saw in Ludendorff the man that could save Germany from the rising Russian threat aimed at East Prussia. But Moltke had a problem. Ludendorff was still considered too young to be handed such a critical assignment and his abrasive manner constantly rankled the Old Guard within the General Staff. After much consideration, Moltke believed he found the best solution to his dilemma; Paul von Hindenburg. The old general was recalled to duty and placed in command of the German Eighth Army in East Prussia. Erich Ludendorff would serve as his Chief of Staff. Moltke hoped that Hindenburg’s calm deliberateness and old fashioned ways would help restrain the high strung, temperamental, and often borderline insubordinate Ludendorff.

The two men, who knew nothing of each other, met for the first time on August 23, 1914 aboard the train that would take them to Eighth Army headquarters in Marienburg, Prussia. They had a brief conversation in which Ludendorff outlined the current military position and the upcoming operation against the Russians. Ludendorff had decided to adopt, with some tweaking of his own, a battle plan put forth by the Eighth Army’s operations chief, Colonel Max Hoffmann. It called for a Schlieffen-esque double envelopment maneuver that, if successful, would destroy the Russian First and Second Armies that were advancing toward East Prussia. Hindenburg approved, and once at Marienburg, everything was set in motion. On the evening of the 24th, Ludendorff suddenly began to doubt himself and seriously questioned whether the plan should be executed, for if it failed, the road to Berlin would be completely open to the Russians. Hindenburg calmed Ludendorff down and advised him to be patient and allow the plan to unfold. The end result was what became known as the Battle of Tannenberg, which over a seven day period, saw the Germans inflict 200,000 casualties on the Russians. Hindenburg and Ludendorff then struck the Russians at the Masurian Lakes, handing the Russians another stunning defeat and driving them from East Prussia.

These two victories made Hindenburg and Ludendorff instant national heroes in Germany. And as a reward, Hindenburg was elevated to the rank of field marshal and named commander in chief of German and Austro-Hungarian forces on the Eastern Front. For the next year, Hindenburg and Ludendorff were on the offensive and by June 1915, success at the Battle of Garlice-Tarnow allowed Germany to take all of Poland from the Russians. An aura of invincibility now surrounded the two men and the Kaiser decided it was time to bring them to the Western Front to see if they could break the stalemate that existed there. In August 1916, Hindenburg was named Chief of the General Staff, Ludendorff became Quartermaster General and the pair took over the war effort in the West.

Unfortunately, the men were not able to duplicate the success they had in the East and, due in large part to Ludendorff’s ego, their working relationship began to falter as well. By war’s end, Ludendorff despised Hindenburg with a passion and never again spoke of Hindenburg in anything but a negative way. Yet Hindenburg’s fondness for Ludendorff never faded, and until the day he died, a portrait of Ludendorff was displayed prominently in Hindenburg’s study. However, even Hindenburg’s death in 1934 did nothing to temper Ludendorff’s hatred. He refused to attend Hindenburg’s memorial service or display a flag in his honor as was customary. Ludendorff died three years later, still bitter over how Hindenburg got all the credit for what he called “my victories”.
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