Benchmark events in the fall of America since 1960... (greatest, 1970's, JFK)

[Fleet]

Originally Posted by JohnHAdams

I have been considering a book dealing with America's precipitous fall from #1 in almost everything to where we are now. 1960 seems to be a good starting point.

These are the benchmark events that I am considering:
1) Kennedy assassination
2) Vietnam
3) Complete removal from the gold standard under Nixon. Inflation has been horrendous since then.
4) Reaganomics
5) Clintonomics
6) Bushbarian Reign of Terror
7) Financial collapse of 2008
8) 9/11

I realize these ideas need to be fleshed out but few want to read a gargantuan post.

First you will have to remove any inaccuracies. For example, there was no "Bushbarian Reign of Terror."

[sunnyandcloudydays]

Originally Posted by JohnHAdams

Yes, the war on the middle class is doing well.

The power shifted from unions to management under Reagan. A key element in the war on the middle class.

Politics have been far more testy than they recently were until more recently. People seem pretty testy these days.

Red light camera districts? Machines have a way of producing as many, or more, errors than cops. But I don't see this as a benchmark event. More of an element of the rise of the electronic police state which is quite insiduous.

I mentioned the financial crisis or housing collapse of 2008 already. The final result femains very much unknown.

Thanks for the ideas. I like the fall of the unions and the collapse of the middle class the best.

Goes without saying - people do seem a bit testy these days

[sunnyandcloudydays]

Originally Posted by NHartphotog

There seems to be a year where everything changed for the Middle Class. The year was 1973. Things were going great before 1973; real incomes rose at a very healthy annual rate of over 2% after WWII, cost of living was not skyrocketing, and the future looked wonderful.

But 1973 (and after) saw everything change for the Middle Class and working classes. "For those with only high school qualifications or less, their absolute earnings peaked in 1973 and have declined substantially since then. From 1973 to 1995, this appeared to be simply a case of the rewards for skills increasing, with low skilled workers suffering increasingly in terms of earnings and job losses compared to those with a bachelor’s degree or better. Since 2000, however, the paradigm has changed, with all sectors of the workforce losing ground in absolute terms, except for the top 1% who have gained essentially all of the modest gains in employee incomes."
Asia Times Online :: Asian news and current affairs - America's disappearing middle class

"From 1945 until 1973 – a period that economic historians now refer to as the Golden Era...the rich got richer, but almost everybody else got richer with them, and at roughly the same pace. The spoils of economic growth were divided remarkably evenly. A glance at the 1973-93 chart, however, shows that …The bottom two-fifths of American families saw their income fall, while the average family in the middle saw its income basically stagnate. Only the top 40 per cent enjoyed any income growth, and only the very rich enjoyed growth comparable with that of the Golden Era." Death Of The Middle Class -- New Internationalist

So what was the major shift in America that suddenly gave almost all the profit from productivity gains to the upper class? ("The data show that companies shared 58% of productivity gain with their workers since records began in 1947. Today, American workers are receiving 6% of the productivity gain they are producing for employers." Latte Republic: Productivity Goes Up and What Do The Workers Get?).

Comments, please.

I would be interested in also comparing what the ceo's of the companies
were earning in 1947 compared to today. I am sure its mind boggling.
just a hunch

[tinynot]

Benchmarks since 1960?

A great social revolution in the 60's happened: protests of the war in Viet Nam , new mindset of "Make Love Not War", free love, anti -establishment, draft cards burned, communes, illicit drugs for many...the revolution was total opposite to the ideas of the previous generation who were patriotic, with good work ethics and sense of family and very different ideas about sex as compared to the 60's generation

The minority revolution, late 60's and 70's: womens liberation, civil rights, black power organization, american indian movement (AIM), chicano movement (United Farmworkers), even a gay society. All these
struggles for power or equality were going on and the government had to deal with these ethnic, cultural, color and gender minorities and great changes were made due to the minority revolutions.

Government revolutions: Kent State Massacre by U.S. military, Roe vs Wade, Watergate, I have to stop now,,,,you get the picture

[chociful]

Obamacare, you cannot count things that have yet to occur. Unless of course you are

a proven prophet.

[JohnHAdams]

For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure — one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.

• Page 405 of Rockefeller's autobiography, "Memoirs", ISBN-13: 978-081296973

Interesting quote indeed.

A "friend of a friend" was Rockefellers competitor for Chase Manhattan CEO though the cards were a bit stacked. I wish I could remember more of his "memoirs". I do remember some.

[JohnHAdams]

Originally Posted by Grandstander

History incorporates the history of politics, but when it is done properly, you aren't supposed to be able to tell what sorts of personal bias may have been motivating the author. This thread hardly qualifies as that.

"The History of Liberalism" by someone who is not known to be a champion of liberalism or consevatism, is history.

"The History of Liberalism" by Ann Coulter.....that isn't history, that is advocacy. As would be the "History of Conservatism" by Tim Robbins.

Please tell us what my "political bias" is. I have no idea whether I am a "conservative" or a "liberal." I currently vote 1/3 third party, 1/3 rep, and 1/3 dem.

Since I advocate having faith and I don't like to think about men "smoking poles", I guess I might lean towards conservatism.

I'm just a guy who believes that he has witnessed a dramatic decline in the overall quality of life for the typical American. I do not believe that two SUV's in the driveway equates to a high QOL.

I listen and observe and think "What the hell happened here?"

[JohnHAdams]

YouTube - Brother, Can You Spare A Trillion?: Government Gone Wild!

[VerBoston]

Before I can offer a perspective I would like to understand what exactly are we measuring ? When you say the USA was # 1 in almost everything, what exactly are you referring to ?

For example, we could look at some basic social conditions such as life expectancy, number of homicides, violent crimes, number of cases of mental illness, increases in social and health problems, social mobility; etc.

In contrast we could look at the military budget and I'm sure we're still # 1.

Secondly, what significance do you attribute to these rankings and what rankings are most important and does it matter whether the USA is ranked # 1 or # 5 ?

Originally Posted by JohnHAdams

I have been considering a book dealing with America's precipitous fall from #1 in almost everything to where we are now. 1960 seems to be a good starting point.

These are the benchmark events that I am considering:
1) Kennedy assassination
2) Vietnam
3) Complete removal from the gold standard under Nixon. Inflation has been horrendous since then.
4) Reaganomics
5) Clintonomics
6) Bushbarian Reign of Terror
7) Financial collapse of 2008
8) 9/11

I realize these ideas need to be fleshed out but few want to read a gargantuan post.

[Grandstander]

Originally Posted by JohnHAdams

Please tell us what my "political bias" is. I have no idea whether I am a "conservative" or a "liberal." I currently vote 1/3 third party, 1/3 rep, and 1/3 dem.

Since I advocate having faith and I don't like to think about men "smoking poles", I guess I might lean towards conservatism.

I'm just a guy who believes that he has witnessed a dramatic decline in the overall quality of life for the typical American. I do not believe that two SUV's in the driveway equates to a high QOL.

I listen and observe and think "What the hell happened here?"

To find a Golden Age, all one needs to do is to select an era and cherry pick all that was good during that time while ignoring all social ills. To prove decline, one cherry picks all that is cruddy about modern life and compares that to the list of virtues from that other era. Presto...Instant Lost Golden Age.

The cruder identification of the phenomena is "YNMYDAY Syndrome."

You know....."Why in my day they didn't rush no kids off to shrinks just because..." or "Why in my day pitchers went nine innings and didn't need no...."

Your particular bias is a fairly common one. You are unhappier than you used to be and you are projecting this as a general decline of all American life. Your disposition toward this attitude is such that I do not believe that it would be worthwhile to try and persuade you otherwise. Whatever I might cite as evidence of enhanced quality, you could, and most likely would, dismiss as not your idea of an improvement. That is because I suspect that yours is a problem of the spirit rather than an evidence based assessment of the realities.

In my lifetime, I have witnessed three successful social revolutions, racial civil rights, gender equality and sexual orientation. My guess is that the members of those groups who today enjoy the fuller rights and opportunities previously denied to them, would argue that there hasn't been a dramatic decline for them, the reverse would be true.

Of course if you, JohnA, do not happen to belong to one of those three groups, then those benefits referenced flowed to others, not to you, so your personal perception remains one of decline. Perhaps that is the problem here, you are taking a narrow perspective, your personal fortunes and opinions, and judging all on that basis alone.

Finally, I'll guess that like me, and like most everyone here on this board, you are participating because you enjoy doing so, you find it a worthwhile way to pass the time. This sort of thing has only been possible for the last 15 years or so, so wouldn't that represent a positive improvement rather than a decline?