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Old 05-09-2011, 01:17 PM
 
Location: SELA
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What factors made General Franco a proponent of Castilian ethnonationalism responsible for cultural oppression of Spanish ethnic minorities (Basques and Catalans especially), despite being a Galician himself?
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Old 05-09-2011, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
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I'm just'a guessin' but he might have figured his policy solidified his power and to Hell with being Galician.
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Old 05-10-2011, 05:01 AM
 
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There was no Castilian "Ethnic Opression".
I'm Catalan myself and all my family spoke Catalan during Franco's regime, some were/are Francoists and later became Convergentes (The current party governing Catalonia).
The "Ethnic Oppression" is a political battle horse that appeared way after Franco's death.
Franco's goverment was packed with Catalans and Catalan and Basque bourgeoisie supported Franco.
Problem is that some people try to change history and invent a "miles gloriosus" past.
Franco was against Catalan and Basque extreme nationalism because of the horrors they provoked during the Republic.
Franco allowed Catalonia and the Basque country to become industrial and economic workhorses, much more developed than any other Spanish region.
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Old 05-10-2011, 01:35 PM
 
Location: SELA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolón View Post
There was no Castilian "Ethnic Opression".
I'm Catalan myself and all my family spoke Catalan during Franco's regime, some were/are Francoists and later became Convergentes (The current party governing Catalonia).
The "Ethnic Oppression" is a political battle horse that appeared way after Franco's death.
Inferences regarding national policies and their affects on large ethnic groups usually cannot be made from anecdotal experience, since the sample size is insufficient. This sort of inference is known in logic as a hasty generalization.

Rees summarizes the Franco regime's cultural oppression policies targeting Catalans specifically in Spain's Linguistic Normalization Laws: The Catalan Controversy: "During the Second Republic (1931- 1939), the Catalan language briefly re- gained full legal status but Francisco Franco, Spain's dictator from 1939 to 1975, decreed Spanish (Castilian) to be the nation's single official language (Maria Artigal 64). To Catalans, many of whom had strenuously opposed Franco, the Spanish language symbolized an oppression that often rendered them illiterate in their own tongue. Notices proclaimed: 'No ladres; habla el idioma del Imperio' (Woolard 28). The government shut down seven daily newspapers in Catalan, prohibited business cards in Catalan as well as the traditional sardanes dances, and children had to be christened with Castilian names (Johnston 29-30). Franco sought to impose a single language as the basis for an absolute national identity (Vallverdui 15)."
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Old 05-11-2011, 05:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
Inferences regarding national policies and their affects on large ethnic groups usually cannot be made from anecdotal experience, since the sample size is insufficient. This sort of inference is known in logic as a hasty generalization.

Rees summarizes the Franco regime's cultural oppression policies targeting Catalans specifically in Spain's Linguistic Normalization Laws: The Catalan Controversy: "During the Second Republic (1931- 1939), the Catalan language briefly re- gained full legal status but Francisco Franco, Spain's dictator from 1939 to 1975, decreed Spanish (Castilian) to be the nation's single official language (Maria Artigal 64). To Catalans, many of whom had strenuously opposed Franco, the Spanish language symbolized an oppression that often rendered them illiterate in their own tongue. Notices proclaimed: 'No ladres; habla el idioma del Imperio' (Woolard 28). The government shut down seven daily newspapers in Catalan, prohibited business cards in Catalan as well as the traditional sardanes dances, and children had to be christened with Castilian names (Johnston 29-30). Franco sought to impose a single language as the basis for an absolute national identity (Vallverdui 15)."

------

I was baptized with a Catalan name in 1960. I studied Catalan during the 60's in private schools. My father studied Catalan during the 40's.

My entire family speaks Catalan, and they always spoke Catalan and many are Francoist all the way. There were publications in Catalan as early as 1943, four years after the war. Masses in Catalan, I've never heard a Mass in Spanish. The Sardana Dances might have been prohibited a couple of years, but later became a typical repertoire of Coros y Danzas (Falange).

Franco might had tried to impose a single language, but he tried to do so many things that were forgotten a few years after the war......

Catalans always spoke Catalan during Franco. Maybe it was not the official language, but it was the real business and social language among Catalans.

Don't pay much attention to those historians, the only prohibitions that were all important during Franco were political and religious. From the 50's on, Catalan bourgeoisie and industrials became Franco's main allies and he did not care much about Catalan.

As to Catalan "Antifrancoists", some were Catalans but most were Spanish immigrants and the were against Catalan bourgeoisie and middle class.
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Old 06-27-2011, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolón View Post
------

I was baptized with a Catalan name in 1960. I studied Catalan during the 60's in private schools. My father studied Catalan during the 40's.

My entire family speaks Catalan, and they always spoke Catalan and many are Francoist all the way. There were publications in Catalan as early as 1943, four years after the war. Masses in Catalan, I've never heard a Mass in Spanish. The Sardana Dances might have been prohibited a couple of years, but later became a typical repertoire of Coros y Danzas (Falange).

Franco might had tried to impose a single language, but he tried to do so many things that were forgotten a few years after the war......

Catalans always spoke Catalan during Franco. Maybe it was not the official language, but it was the real business and social language among Catalans.

Don't pay much attention to those historians, the only prohibitions that were all important during Franco were political and religious. From the 50's on, Catalan bourgeoisie and industrials became Franco's main allies and he did not care much about Catalan.
So why did Franco only make one official visit to Barcelona during his entire time in power - in 1960? He waited that long due to fear of assassination. And why was there a riot when Franco attended an opera at the Liceu opera house? Most of the audience including the rioters were Catalan bourgeoisie, and one of the men arrested for rioting was Jordi Pujol (then a banker) amongst other very respectable, affluent members of Catalan society?
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Old 06-27-2011, 09:42 PM
 
Location: USA
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Basques and Catalans tend toward independence. Franco tried to stifle that tendency by forcing uniformity of expression. It didn't work since both regions are still different lingusitically and culturally from the rest of Spain. Not totally of course. But just enough to make them feel that they deserve nationhood all their own. Perhaps this can be compared a little bit to the Welch, Scotts, and Catholic Irish in relation to England?
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Old 06-28-2011, 05:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majoun View Post
So why did Franco only make one official visit to Barcelona during his entire time in power - in 1960? He waited that long due to fear of assassination. And why was there a riot when Franco attended an opera at the Liceu opera house? Most of the audience including the rioters were Catalan bourgeoisie, and one of the men arrested for rioting was Jordi Pujol (then a banker) amongst other very respectable, affluent members of Catalan society?

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No rioters at the Opera House, but at the Palau de la Musica.Just a few pampered kids spurred by priests sang a nationalistic anthem, la Senyera. Franco came to Catalonia many times, I remember that he came to my town at least three times. Jordi Pujol was not a banker, but the son of a banker.

Catalans are more Italian or Southern French that Spanish. Catalans love money, are always in favour of making pacts and never in favour of confrontation. That's why Catalan Bourgeoisie supported and grew rich with Franco, but when Franco died they all became "Nationalistic Resistants". Many started to practice their "rusty Catalan" again, and all translated their names to Catalan. A typical French behaviour.

Right now we're governed by Convergencia, a supposedly "nationalistic" (not really) center right party. Convergencia was founded by Catalans that once were Francoists.

Nobody in his right mind wants independence here, just a few crackpots. Castilians or Spanish have invaded Catalonia many times, we are kind of used to them but many people don't like them. Not a reason for independence.

Ethnonationalism was not "Castilian" but "Spanish" (also included Catalans, Catalan empire, Basque, Latin Americans, Sephardic Jews, etc).

Last edited by Manolón; 06-28-2011 at 06:00 AM..
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Old 06-28-2011, 06:03 AM
 
2,226 posts, read 5,107,982 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
What factors made General Franco a proponent of Castilian ethnonationalism responsible for cultural oppression of Spanish ethnic minorities (Basques and Catalans especially), despite being a Galician himself?
----

No, he was not responsable. Misfits commited by extreme nationalists during the Republic and Civil war were responsible.

I don't know if we are an ethnic minority, not really.
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Old 06-28-2011, 02:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolón View Post
Castilians or Spanish have invaded Catalonia many times
When? And don't talk about "Guerra de sucesión".

Catalan empire?????
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