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They did not count on the British being the bulldogs they really are and fighting to the finish over such a place as Poland. That fact really upset all of their plans and if they had not been fighting England they probably would have defeated the USSR. If that had been the case then they really would have had the world in their grip and who knows what would have happened then. They actually had well formulated plans for the taking of South America and then Mexico. We can all be thankful for the fighting spirit of the Brits and of course the Canuks, Aussies and Kiwis for holding the fort when the chips were down.
Can you give me more information on the South America thing? In all Hitler's writings and the writings of the German politicians, they were not interested in the colonies. There was no "Cairo to Capetown" like the British who had established colonies and empires at the expense of other's the world over (funny how they got so upset about Poland).
France and the U.K should have left Germany alone, they certainly didn't mind when Russia invaded Poland and Finland. The Germans and Russians would have gone to war fairly soon anyway, Hitler hated communism and considered it would be the downfall of the White race.
Also - after watching the Russians invade Finland and a few other territories they believed he was going to strike at Europe and he did after the war when Russia had half of Europe fall under their sphere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88
Not very much has been written about this, but Nazi Germany was not all that totalitarian, with respect to the Aryans, who had a great deal more personal freedom than the rank and file citizenry in the USSR. Germany was a wonderful place if you were Aryan, but otherwise, not so good. Aside from the fact that a war was going on, with the attendant restrictions and rationing.
Germany didn't want non-Germans living there which is why they began implementing such restrictions on Jews, Roma, etc. I believe in one of his writings Hitler said the reason for the restrictions was to get them to leave, there was one document where agreed the policies were hurting German-Jews who saw themselves as German first but the problem was the majority of Jews in Germany controlled a disproportional amount of the national wealth and had risen to positions in power in the media, political, and banking spectrums. (I remember reading a figure which said German-Jews controlled 30% of the country's wealth).
The entire premise of National Socialism was a country where the people and nation were one in body and soul. Basically national unity united by race, culture and country.
An interesting look into this philosophy from an outsider was written by an American who visited Germany during the period known as the "Phony War." He went across Germany and interviewed the people, politicians, etc even met Hitler.
http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0300731.txt I found this book interesting, like I said it was written shortly after the invasion of Poland so you don't' get the propagandized version of history you would today. He writes about both the positive and the negative. The book is entitled "Into the Darkness" by Lothrop Stoddard.
Can you give me more information on the South America thing? In all Hitler's writings and the writings of the German politicians, they were not interested in the colonies. There was no "Cairo to Capetown" like the British who had established colonies and empires at the expense of other's the world over (funny how they got so upset about Poland).
France and the U.K should have left Germany alone, they certainly didn't mind when Russia invaded Poland and Finland. The Germans and Russians would have gone to war fairly soon anyway, Hitler hated communism and considered it would be the downfall of the White race.
Also - after watching the Russians invade Finland and a few other territories they believed he was going to strike at Europe and he did after the war when Russia had half of Europe fall under their sphere.
Germany didn't want non-Germans living there which is why they began implementing such restrictions on Jews, Roma, etc. I believe in one of his writings Hitler said the reason for the restrictions was to get them to leave, there was one document where agreed the policies were hurting German-Jews who saw themselves as German first but the problem was the majority of Jews in Germany controlled a disproportional amount of the national wealth and had risen to positions in power in the media, political, and banking spectrums. (I remember reading a figure which said German-Jews controlled 30% of the country's wealth).
The entire premise of National Socialism was a country where the people and nation were one in body and soul. Basically national unity united by race, culture and country.
An interesting look into this philosophy from an outsider was written by an American who visited Germany during the period known as the "Phony War." He went across Germany and interviewed the people, politicians, etc even met Hitler.
http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0300731.txt I found this book interesting, like I said it was written shortly after the invasion of Poland so you don't' get the propagandized version of history you would today. He writes about both the positive and the negative. The book is entitled "Into the Darkness" by Lothrop Stoddard.
There are a few books out there about Sir William Stephenson, The quiet Canadian. Many of these books go into the Nazi intrigues in South America. Just a study on Sir William is very important in understanding the entire area of the secret war and how badly we beat the Germans at it.
It's hard to believe that the USA had no foreign security apparatus and no idea of how to either set one up or run it when it was set up. Stephenson ran British security coordination from downtown Manhattan and was very instrumental in bringing the USA out of their isolation and on side with us. He taught General William Donovan everything he knew which inabled the USA to set up the OSS which became the CIA after the war.
Both my father in law and mother in law were brought up in Germany and attended school under the Nazi regime. If you think that the Nazis were not aiming for world domination then you should know the anthem they sang every day in school was translated into English, "Germany over all".
One of the lines is this. "Today Germany belongs to us, tomorrow the whole world". Read Mien Kampf and you will see that Hitler aimed to bring a "new world order" to mankind. The so called Arayn peoples would dominate the entire planet and use the lesser inferior tribes as slaves.
Your stated reasons for the persecution of the Jews is just plain wrong. To the Nazis the Jewish people were Satan incarnate. This obessive hate for the Jews is also tied up in Hitlers hate for Communism which he called a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world on behalf of international Jewry. Your stated reasons were something the Nazis talked about but were just the tip of the anti semetic iceberg.
You said that you read a book that points out some positive aspects of Nazism. Well, think again. There has been few if any more evil and downright disgusting systems in world history than the Nazis. There was nothing good about them at all. Sure there were those who saw some good like Henery Ford who was attracted to the abolition of all trade unions and who also was a rabid anti semite. Charles Lindberg was another Nazi lover. I've heard all my life people saying, Well Hitler put all the people to work. He did that alright by diverting almost the entire German economy into military preparation. By 1939 the Nazi government was spending over 80% of the GDP and was thereby forced to go to war. There was no more money by this point so they had to rape and pillage their neighbours just to pay the bills.
My father in law had a very interesting life. He is German born in Siberia. His family escaped into Germany in 1923. They were not under the same threat in Germany as they had been in Russia. Most of the extended family was murdered by the GRU. When the war started my Father in law was sent right back into Russia as a code breaker. He spent the entire war in German HQ center group. There was a courtyard outside of his office and Hitler walked alone by his window daily when he was at HQ. Once his phone rang and it was Hitler on the line asking for General so and so. My Father in law said "he is not here". Hitler said, "Then go get him dumkopft". My father in law hung up on him. LOL
If you think that the Nazis were not aiming for world domination then you should know the anthem they sang every day in school was translated into English, "Germany over all".
One of the lines is this. "Today Germany belongs to us, tomorrow the whole world". Read Mien Kampf and you will see that Hitler aimed to bring a "new world order" to mankind. The so called Arayn peoples would dominate the entire planet and use the lesser inferior tribes as slaves.
This simply isn't true. The Germans wanted land in the East for settlement not world conquest. Even Himmler himself said he would want nothing more than to have an isolated self-sufficient Germany.
There's nothing in Mein Kampf about German domination of the world nor were there any German plans for world conquest. Hell, Germany even let France keep their colonies the world over as long as their navy was disarmed. Hitler even told Britain they would not interfear with British colonies in India, Africa, etc if Britain would allow a Central Europe with Germany as the dominate power.
We seem to easily forget while the British and French were crying about Germany's invasion of Poland, they had literally invaded territories the world over while Russia invaded Eastern Europe and Finland.
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Originally Posted by lucknow
Your stated reasons for the persecution of the Jews is just plain wrong.
No it wasn't. If the Jews in Germany were assimilated Germans, what would be the reason to hate?
The very persecution was based on the perceived belief that Jewish-Germans stabbed Germany in the back after the Great War and controlled their newspapers, media, politics, etc. Even Charles Lindbergh himself said Germany had a "serious Jewish problem" but didn't agree with how they handled it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow
You said that you read a book that points out some positive aspects of Nazism. Well, think again. There has been few if any more evil and downright disgusting systems in world history than the Nazis.
Not so sure about that, take out the hatred of Jews and look at the beliefs themselves. It was for Germany and for Germans. A unity of race, culture and soil where the people were one. The entire idea of National Socialism was one nation, one culture and one people. Homogenous countries do work well (see Japan, Denmark, etc) and the systems set-up under Germany in the 30s were that not only put the people back to work but established a universal health care system and provided for the poor. Furthermore, parents were taught how to raise children and those who had children were looked highly upon not something to be shunned like it is today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow
By 1939 the Nazi government was spending over 80% of the GDP and was thereby forced to go to war. There was no more money by this point so they had to rape and pillage their neighbours just to pay the bills.
Not really. If the British and French made peace after Germany and Russia carved up Poland there would have been no war. It's not like the Germans were going from Cairo to Cape Town like the British.
More than likely the Russians and Germans would have fought as they were destined to.
This simply isn't true. The Germans wanted land in the East for settlement not world conquest. Even Himmler himself said he would want nothing more than to have an isolated self-sufficient Germany.
There's nothing in Mein Kampf about German domination of the world nor were there any German plans for world conquest. Hell, Germany even let France keep their colonies the world over as long as their navy was disarmed. Hitler even told Britain they would not interfear with British colonies in India, Africa, etc if Britain would allow a Central Europe with Germany as the dominate power.
We seem to easily forget while the British and French were crying about Germany's invasion of Poland, they had literally invaded territories the world over while Russia invaded Eastern Europe and Finland.
No it wasn't. If the Jews in Germany were assimilated Germans, what would be the reason to hate?
The very persecution was based on the perceived belief that Jewish-Germans stabbed Germany in the back after the Great War and controlled their newspapers, media, politics, etc. Even Charles Lindbergh himself said Germany had a "serious Jewish problem" but didn't agree with how they handled it.
Not so sure about that, take out the hatred of Jews and look at the beliefs themselves. It was for Germany and for Germans. A unity of race, culture and soil where the people were one. The entire idea of National Socialism was one nation, one culture and one people. Homogenous countries do work well (see Japan, Denmark, etc) and the systems set-up under Germany in the 30s were that not only put the people back to work but established a universal health care system and provided for the poor. Furthermore, parents were taught how to raise children and those who had children were looked highly upon not something to be shunned like it is today.
Not really. If the British and French made peace after Germany and Russia carved up Poland there would have been no war. It's not like the Germans were going from Cairo to Cape Town like the British.
More than likely the Russians and Germans would have fought as they were destined to.
Ity's very obvious to me that you know nothing about Nazism.Your apologies for them make me sick.
Did you know for example that children were taught to spy on and report their parents for ANY thoughts or words that might not be correct. These parents were often sent to the concentration camps.
The Germans were "The master race" according to Nazi ideas. They were destined to rule over all who were inferior. Sure they would allow the Other Arayans some leeway but only if they adopted a National Socialist form of government.
Your statements about the Nazis and France really show a profound lack of any knowledge on the subject. The Nazis had France beaten real well. They were in the process of robbing every single Franc from the country by the process of France having to pay for the German army of occupation. The Nazis then took this money and used it to buy every single business in France worth owning. If the USA was more like the Nazis they would now present Iraq with a bill of 10 trillion dollars for "Liberating" ther country from Sadam. Of course the Iraqis don't have that kind of money so we will just take the oil as a part payment.
Another thing the Nazis did in France was to take almost all the farm produce to feed Germany. Hitler said many times that all of Europe would starve before the German housewife had to go without.
Their lies were so well done that they have you fooled some 70 years after the fact.Their God was Loki the God of lies.
You are of course wrong about the Nazis aim of world domination. If you are interested in learning anything about it then Goggle "Hitlers statements on world domination". It's all there in black and white for you to see.
This is very scary stuff. I had no idea that the Communists were Hitlers enemy. The parliment burned down (probably by him) and he blamed the Communists, who he had rounded up and imprisoned. His militia was the Nazi's. All this time, I thought they were one and the same, Nazi's and Communists.
In the name of national security, Hitler eliminated free speech, freedom of expression, and freedom of association. The Germans were promised a great future for their children, freedom and prosperity. They thought Hitler was their Savior.
Have to get back to this program. This makes me very proud our freedoms and the tea party patriots. Never to be taken for granted. We have people on this very forum arguing for socialism. The Constitution protects our rights as individuals, as opposed to the socialist concept of 'the common good'.
Don't forget they had a non aggression pact with the commies and when the Battle of Britain was over and his plan failed to invade England his hunger eyes turned to Russia his downfall.Imagine Germany,Japan,Italy and Russia were all Allies at one time that would of been scarry living in those times.
You know, now that I think about it, Communists and Fascists were kinda taught as the same. At least there was no real differentiating them.
I was just wondering how much history is being whitewashed in schools.
Forgetting the Imperialistic Japanese and their occupation of Manchuria and the coastal regions of China? Does anyone remember the USS PANAY incident a gunboat like in the movie "THE SAND PEBBLES" they were anchored in the Yangtze River off of Nanking in 1937 and were attacked by Japanese planes with loss of life? WOW the Dept.of Education are really doing a great job of altered history
Spainish women have a unique look ever wonder why? That is because the conquerors breed with the locals Romans [Italians and other races that served in the Legions] someone said the Moors [N. Africans Islamic] till EL CID expelled them.TRAJAN was the first non-Italian Emperor a Spainard like in the movie "GLADIATOR".
This simply isn't true. The Germans wanted land in the East for settlement not world conquest. Even Himmler himself said he would want nothing more than to have an isolated self-sufficient Germany.
There's nothing in Mein Kampf about German domination of the world nor were there any German plans for world conquest. Hell, Germany even let France keep their colonies the world over as long as their navy was disarmed. Hitler even told Britain they would not interfear with British colonies in India, Africa, etc if Britain would allow a Central Europe with Germany as the dominate power.
We seem to easily forget while the British and French were crying about Germany's invasion of Poland, they had literally invaded territories the world over while Russia invaded Eastern Europe and Finland.
No it wasn't. If the Jews in Germany were assimilated Germans, what would be the reason to hate?
The very persecution was based on the perceived belief that Jewish-Germans stabbed Germany in the back after the Great War and controlled their newspapers, media, politics, etc. Even Charles Lindbergh himself said Germany had a "serious Jewish problem" but didn't agree with how they handled it.
Not so sure about that, take out the hatred of Jews and look at the beliefs themselves. It was for Germany and for Germans. A unity of race, culture and soil where the people were one. The entire idea of National Socialism was one nation, one culture and one people. Homogenous countries do work well (see Japan, Denmark, etc) and the systems set-up under Germany in the 30s were that not only put the people back to work but established a universal health care system and provided for the poor. Furthermore, parents were taught how to raise children and those who had children were looked highly upon not something to be shunned like it is today.
Not really. If the British and French made peace after Germany and Russia carved up Poland there would have been no war. It's not like the Germans were going from Cairo to Cape Town like the British.
More than likely the Russians and Germans would have fought as they were destined to.
Are you actually a Nazi apologist or just someone who has read enough of the wrong thing to be dangerous?
Some nice quotes from Hitler:
The struggle for world domination will be fought entirely between us, between Germans and Jews. All else is facade and illusion. Behind England stands Israel, and behind France, and behind the United States. Even when we have driven the Jew out of Germany, he remains our world enemy.
Providence has ordained that I should be the greatest liberator of humanity. I am freeing man from the restraints of an intelligence that has taken charge, from the dirty and degrading self-mortification of a false vision called conscience and morality, and from the demands of a freedom and independence which only a very few can bear.
If only one country, for whatever reason, tolerates a Jewish family in it, that family will become the germ center for fresh sedition. If one little Jewish boy survives without any Jewish education, with no synagogue and no Hebrew school, it [Judaism] is in his soul. Even if there had never been a synagogue or a Jewish school or an Old Testament, the Jewish spirit would still exist and exert its influence. It has been there from the beginning and there is no Jew, not a single one, who does not personify it.
Do you now appreciate the depth of our National Socialist Movement? Can there be anything greater and more all comprehending? Those who see in National Socialism nothing more than a political movement know scarcely anything of it. It is more even than religion; it is the will to create mankind anew.
The [Nazi party] should not become a constable of public opinion, but must dominate it. It must not become a servant of the masses, but their master!
There must be no majority decisions, but only responsible persons, and the word 'council' must be restored to its original meaning. Surely every man will have advisers by his side, but the decision will be made by one man.
We will not capitulate - no, never! We may be destroyed, but if we are, we shall drag a world with us - a world in flames.
A bunch of quotes from Hitler--not even random ones, but a few that you selected because they reinforce your point of view. They are not, in their isolation, the definitive condensation of the Hitler philosophy.
Don't forget they had a non aggression pact with the commies and when the Battle of Britain was over and his plan failed to invade England his hunger eyes turned to Russia his downfall.Imagine Germany,Japan,Italy and Russia were all Allies at one time that would of been scarry living in those times.
That non aggression pact was nothing but a device to keep the USSR out of it while the Nazis finished off Europe. Every single political analyst of the day knew full well that Hitler would take on the USSR when the time was ripe. The defeat of international communism was the central plank of the Nazi platform. That was the main reason that right wingers from all over the world supported Hitler and his gang. Most of the upper crust of England, France and all of the Eastern European countries saw Hitler as a saviour from the menace of communism. The right wing in France before the war had a saying. "Better Hitler than Blum". They were refering to Leon Blum the leftleaning Jewish Preimer of France. They also refered to the French republic as "The ****" "La slupe" {I think that is the French spelling the site will not allow it in English}. How's that for patriotism. To the wealthy all over the world, class was far more than country. This condition also existed to a marked degree in the USA.
This is besides the point but the Class over country crowd is still very active and powerful in the USA right this very day. They would see the country destroyed rather than give up their special status. Billionairs who would not give one red cent more in taxes even when the country is in dire straights. It's pathetic I tell you.
Well, those Frenchmen who betrayed their own country got their Hitler and they found that they had been light years ahead with Blum.
The Rupert Murdoch of the day, the Canadian, Lord Beaverbrook was also a supporter of Hitler to begin with. When he was finally able to see the light about the Nazis he became a valuable member of Churchills inner circle.
William Randolph Hearst was also a Hitler lover and would liked to see an extreme right wing government in the USA. He hated FDR with a passion and used his media empire to oppose the government of the USA at all times.
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