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Old 02-11-2012, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Pacific Northwest
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Does anyone have a link to the front page image of the Soviet state newspaper where Stalin allowed the Soviet press to put Roosevelt's picture and obituary story on the front page?

I find that extraordinary considering Stalin's previous and future encounters and relations with the United States as cold to hostile (with the time they were allied from 1941-1945 as the only warm point).
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Old 02-11-2012, 09:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Does anyone have a link to the front page image of the Soviet state newspaper where Stalin allowed the Soviet press to put Roosevelt's picture and obituary story on the front page?

Sorry, wish I could help you there. I can't, but still want to comment about your observation.

Quote:
I find that extraordinary considering Stalin's previous and future encounters and relations with the United States as cold to hostile (with the time they were allied from 1941-1945 as the only warm point).
The alliance between the United States, Britain, and the Soviet Union was surely one of the most unlikely alliances that existed between countries in this world. It was mostly an alliance of pure convenience. When I consider it, a couple of famous sayings pop into my mind:

1. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

2. America should forsake long term relationships with foreign countries. However, short term temporary alliances are desirable.

America's relations with Soviet Russia were tenuous to say the least. From 1917 through 1933, the USA had no diplomatic relations with the Soviet Union. The Bolshevik government under Lenin that had taken over the country was widely regarded in the United States in the most fearful manner. From 1918 through 1921, we went through a period known as the "Red Scare" where many people were convinced that there were Bolsheviks and Anarchists in America who were plotting a revolution in our own country. The climate of fear was not entirely without basis. A number of homes and establishments were bombed during this time period by radical groups. In fact, the home of Attorney General, A. Mitchell Palmer, was bombed and an anarchist died when the device exploded prematurely. The communists did speak of a world wide revolution by workers and there were plenty of disgruntled workers in the USA and elsewhere during this period because of abuses that occurred. Teachers in some states were literally forbidden to talk to their students about that country that had become known as the Soviet Union.

Before Herbert Hoover became President, he undertook a number of international responsibilities with NGO's. One job he undertook was famine relief in the Soviet Union during the 1920's. Hoover tried to remain as apolitical as he could. However, the paranoid nature of the new Soviet government became readily apparent to him and the other men in the relief agency. Despite the fact that Hoover and America was essentially providing millions of dollars in food assistance to starving Russians, the Russian government repeatedly interfered with their efforts and even, at times, arrested relief officials. This hardly built "goodwill" between our two nations.

During the 1930's, Stalin undertook purges both against communist leadership and against millions of his own citizens. Despite the absence of reporting, the scale of these purges was so huge that the truth was gradually emerging. Many people who were even communists denounced Stalin and broke with him. The purge trials of communist party officials in the 1930's were widely reported on in the western countries. It quickly came to light how trumped up most of these cases were. Stalin became exposed as a dictator and mass murderer.

Given this background, its a wonder that the USA and the Soviet Union could cooperate when it came to anything at all. The reason we were able to do so simply has to do with the exigencies of the time, or historical period. First of all, one must understand that geography is a prime factor in determining which countries shall be allied with one another. A historical alliance of sorts had existed for decades between Russia and some western countries. The single solitary basis for that alliance is that in between them lay the country of Germany. Germany was viewed by the both the Russians and western countries as militaristic and bent on the establishment of an empire. The alliance, I speak of was present during World War I, prior to the defeat of czarist Russia, by Germany.

Initially, Stalin had shown some interest in an alliance with the western countries as he watched the Nazis rise to power in Germany. He was rebuffed. His reputation was so terrible that the western countries were loathe to form an alliance with him. Unable to form an alliance with the western countries, Stalin instead opted to try and make a treaty with Nazi Germany. In 1939, the two countries signed the Nazi/Soviet Pact which divided up Poland. Stalin probably hoped that this treaty would give him enough time to build up his armed forces so that when the Germans inevitably broke the pact (he fully expected this) that he would be ready to fight them.

Stalin's armies were far from ready to fight the Germans by June of 1941, when the Germans broke their treaty and invaded the USSR. Britain, of course, was already at war with Germany and had been since September of 1939. Winston Churchill was a great opponent of communism and the Bolsheviks. Yet, he stated in his memoirs that, even so, he was glad to have the Soviet Union on his side after the June 1941 invasion.

Following the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941, Germany declared war on the USA. The only course of action for our country was to join the other countries fighting the Germans. As it was, in December 1941, the Soviet Union was engaging 98% of all German forces. Britain was engaging small contingents of Germans in North Africa, but that was about it. Whatever, one thinks about Stalin and the Soviet Union every German soldier their armies killed was one less that American and British armies had to kill.

That fact alone made an alliance with the Soviet Union valuable and worthwhile for America and Britain. There would have been hundreds of thousands of more American and British casualties in World War II without the assistance of the Soviet Union.

The tenuous relationship between our countries was already dissolving before the end of World War II. Yalta and Potsdam were tense conferences as all the powers contemplated a new, postwar world. The Cold War was a very trying period for all the countries. Its a shame that the relationship which beat Nazi Germany could not be maintained in some form. If our countries had been able to spend just a portion of the money we devoted to defense needs on our citizenry what a magnificent world we could have built.
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:14 PM
 
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My impression is that while Churchill understood the necessity of being friends with Old Joe he still understood what he was dealing with, while Roosevelt was much more taken in, naive, and a bit of a toady.
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Old 02-11-2012, 09:45 PM
 
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warm point is an understatement. We backed the Soviets to the emph degree replacing all the materials that they lost in the war against the Germans one for one. In other words for every item that they lost we replaced. Thats some pretty heavy backing. I would say our relationship with the Soviets was hot to say the least.

As far as the cooling of the relationship, that was all a hype. By creating the myth that the Soviets were out to get us we spent billions on arms as did the Soviets. The war goods manufactorers and their media dupes were the ones behind all the tension of those times.
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Old 02-11-2012, 10:30 PM
 
Location: New York City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angorlee View Post
warm point is an understatement. We backed the Soviets to the emph degree replacing all the materials that they lost in the war against the Germans one for one. In other words for every item that they lost we replaced. Thats some pretty heavy backing. I would say our relationship with the Soviets was hot to say the least.
And for every item we sent them, we saved the lives of one or two GIs that otherwise would have had to fight the Germans themselves. Sounds like a sweet deal to me.
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Old 02-12-2012, 07:03 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,060,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giesela View Post
My impression is that while Churchill understood the necessity of being friends with Old Joe he still understood what he was dealing with, while Roosevelt was much more taken in, naive, and a bit of a toady.
Roosevelt suffered few delusions about who and what Stalin was. As for being a
"toady" Roosevelt like Eisenshower was a realist and understood that there was nothing the western Allies could do to stop Stalin's european ambitions.
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Old 02-12-2012, 08:15 PM
 
Location: New York City
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I'd think that Roosevelt realized that, in addition to cleaning up in Europe, Soviet Union's help would be essential in finishing off Japan. It was not until the Trinity Test in 1945 that people realized that heavy casualties could be avoided even without Soviet help.

If you want to see how delusional Churchill was, read about Operational Unthinkable.
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