When did the Middle Ages start and end? And modernity? (Roman, England)

[belmont22]

I heard 476-1453 being one definition, the end of the western Roman Empire up to the fall of Constantinople.

I don't think anyone could give an exact date though. I'd even argue that the Middle Ages lasted longer in certain places than others. For example Italy was always coming out of them by the year 1400, but the England of the Tudor period was still in many ways a medieval society. There's probably parts of Eastern Europe that were practically medieval all the way up to the early days of 20th-century communism.

And of course, the Middle Ages didn't really exist quite so much as a distinct epoch outside of the European continent.

Generally speaking, what I'd say defined Medieval society is feudalism, concepts of chivalry, the dominance of the Catholic Church, pre-industrialization, pre-individualism and illiteracy being the overwhelming norm. The Protestant reformation, Industrial Revolution, exploration and colonization of the New World, the invention of the mirror and the printing press are the factors that made the Medieval era gradually end.

I've also heard people ending Modernity at 1989 or 1991 because of the fall of the Soviet Union, which has led to Postmodern relativism and the belief in the power of capitalism's Invisible Hand supplanting the belief in historical progress and indeed the entire concept of having a 'society'. On the other hand though, one could also argue that we're still fundamentally in the Modern Age and that postmodernism, political correctness, etc are fads and the Internet is simply the final culmination of the Modernist information revolution that began with Gutenberg.

There's actually a lot of similarities between the end of the Middle Ages in the 14th/15th centuries and the past 30 to 50 years. New information technology changes the way people think (Printing press, computers/Internet), a massive epidemic of disease (the Black Death, AIDS), skepticism about the dominant religion of the time (Catholicism and nowadays, Christianity and religion in general), an increase in Islamic power (rise of the Ottoman Empire and now Muslims have a much larger share of the population than they used to, and are slowly beginning to replace Europe's native inhabitants), and a change in world order (back then to the Middle East and eastern Europe from Western Europe, and today, from Europe and the former Soviet Union to the Pacific Rim).

[Grandstander]

Originally Posted by belmont22

I don't think anyone could give an exact date though. .

The Middle Ages began at 3:32 pm, April 19, 511 CE. They ended at 7:29 am, July 7, 1519 CE.

Although there is still historical argument about whether it was 7:29 am or 7:30 am.

[Mikestone8]

One could make a case for their staring in 496 with the conversion of Clovis. That married up European monarchy with the Catholic Church, which is what the Middle Ages was all about.

When they ended is more arguable, but in England, probably about Henry VIII's reign. It depends whether you count the Renaissance as the tail end of the MA or the beginning of modern.

[belmont22]

Originally Posted by Mikestone8

One could make a case for their staring in 496 with the conversion of Clovis. That married up European monarchy with the Catholic Church, which is what the Middle Ages was all about.

When they ended is more arguable, but in England, probably about Henry VIII's reign. It depends whether you count the Renaissance as the tail end of the MA or the beginning of modern.

I would guess that for the majority of people the Renaissance was still essentially medieval but for the upper class it was modern.

Actually certain parts of the world still aren't modern yet, or weren't modernized until some point between 1950 and now.

[ABQConvict]

I would say that the the end of the middle ages is defined by the renaissance. They are socially and intellectually different and their definitions are exclusive.

Some people define the two epochs in terms of material culture or dominant lifestyle, i.e. pre-industrial, agricultural, but post Classical, but those people are dumb. Smiley.

[NJGOAT]

Well, these time periods have been pretty well defined by most historians...

The Middle Ages tend to run from ~400-1500. Some include the late western Roman emperors as the beginning of the Middle Ages while others peg it to ~500 and the conversion of Clovis. This time period is further divided into three categories:

Early Middle Ages: ~400/500 to 1000
High Middle Ages: 1000-1300
Late Middle Ages: 1300-1500

From there begins the Modern Period which we are still in. The Modern Period also is broken down into three periods:

Early Modern: 1500-1815
Modern: 1815-1949
Contemporary: 1950 to present.

Now, those are the 'official' time periods. You can move some of the dates forward or backwards a bit to encompass certain events, but they don't really change by much overall. As was said earlier, the dates are a general "Western Civilization" dating and can be moved around a bit depending on individual nations or societies. The dates overall are trying to track the beginnings of trends and noticable changes in thought or structure. Some places were quicker with this then others.