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Old 02-27-2014, 12:53 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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I would say there are two answers to this question...the British Empire was certainly very influential in making English the language of trade and diplomacy - as early as the late 19th century English was used by many diplomats/traders from Canada to Africa to the Far East. I don't think French has ever been as global as it is claimed, maybe within Europe for awhile. I forgot who said it, but they said the most significant event of the 20th century was that 'North America speaks English'. I would say ironically when the British Empire officially ended in say the 60s, the American cultural Empire was on the rise and replaced it as the dominant English language influence through not only Hollywood and pop music (the UK was also influential there) but through science, the arts/literature.

I would say, though, it was probably only the late 90s when English well and truly became as global as it is: it was at this point where large percentages of Europeans started becoming fluent in English, and when in nations like Singapore up to 40% of people spoke it natively. Also English has had more second language speakers than any other language for a long time now, and the total number of people who can speak some English may be as high as 2 billion.

The Internet is probably another thing which has spread English, to an extent. I don't think everyone will start speaking English (thank goodness really) but I also wonder if it's reached it's peak of it's influence. I mean Chinese is still prominent, and I wonder if China will become a regional lingua franca within Asia.

 
Old 02-27-2014, 01:37 AM
 
Location: SoCal
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Simple answer: In 1991 (when the USSR collapsed) or earlier.
 
Old 02-27-2014, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
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I believe the slow decline of the French had at least as much effect as the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Also, French is the most inflective of the major Western languages, thus the hardest in which a non-native speaker can feel accustomed. because of this, I suspect that the "competition" from the two major Chinese dialects, which are also heavily affected by inflection, won't be as strong as anticipated.
 
Old 02-27-2014, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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^ Yeah I don't honestly see how the collapse of the USSR had much to do it. Outside Russia, central Asia and a few Stalinist enclaves Russian wasn't very significant. Even in the other Eastern bloc countries like Czechoslovakia and Poland I don't think Russian was that important. Yes, some in say Cuba or Vietnam were learning it, but they were a distinct minority and it was not like it was going to replace the language there or even become a second lingua franca anytime soon.

I still remember when French was the second language used in announcements during the Olympics and the UN. French is definitely the closest thing to English/a global lingua franca in modern times. If history had gone differently French might be where English is now. I think if North America had been predominantly French, as well as Australia (both were distinct possibilities) the world would be a VERY different place.
 
Old 02-27-2014, 09:15 PM
 
Location: SoCal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
I believe the slow decline of the French had at least as much effect as the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Also, French is the most inflective of the major Western languages, thus the hardest in which a non-native speaker can feel accustomed. because of this, I suspect that the "competition" from the two major Chinese dialects, which are also heavily affected by inflection, won't be as strong as anticipated.
Maybe you are right in regards to your point here about French.
 
Old 02-27-2014, 09:18 PM
 
Location: SoCal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
^ Yeah I don't honestly see how the collapse of the USSR had much to do it. Outside Russia, central Asia and a few Stalinist enclaves Russian wasn't very significant. Even in the other Eastern bloc countries like Czechoslovakia and Poland I don't think Russian was that important. Yes, some in say Cuba or Vietnam were learning it, but they were a distinct minority and it was not like it was going to replace the language there or even become a second lingua franca anytime soon.

I still remember when French was the second language used in announcements during the Olympics and the UN. French is definitely the closest thing to English/a global lingua franca in modern times. If history had gone differently French might be where English is now. I think if North America had been predominantly French, as well as Australia (both were distinct possibilities) the world would be a VERY different place.
I am not purely talking about Russian here. Rather, I am talking about how many countries in the world were Communist until the late 1980s and early 1990s--I am skeptical that Communist (note: not Communist-in-name-only such as China) governments (at least many of whom were anti-imperalist) were particularly receptive to teaching English to their people, especially considering the fact that the U.K. and/or the U.S. were portrayed/perceived as being imperialist countries. Some/Many of these Communist countries might not have taught their people Russian (much), but I am not sure that they taught their people English much either before the end of the Cold War.

Yes, French history had great importance as well, including as the language of diplomacy. Thus, the decline of French might have also played a (large) role in making English the unofficial global lingua franca.
 
Old 02-28-2014, 05:46 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurist110 View Post
I am not purely talking about Russian here. Rather, I am talking about how many countries in the world were Communist until the late 1980s and early 1990s--I am skeptical that Communist (note: not Communist-in-name-only such as China) governments (at least many of whom were anti-imperalist) were particularly receptive to teaching English to their people, especially considering the fact that the U.K. and/or the U.S. were portrayed/perceived as being imperialist countries. Some/Many of these Communist countries might not have taught their people Russian (much), but I am not sure that they taught their people English much either before the end of the Cold War.

Yes, French history had great importance as well, including as the language of diplomacy. Thus, the decline of French might have also played a (large) role in making English the unofficial global lingua franca.
But my point was, do you seriously think Russian would have competed with English, communism or not?
 
Old 02-28-2014, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Columbia SC
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Remember that English is the world wide language standard for all air traffic control. It is also the defacto standard in the high tech business.
 
Old 02-28-2014, 07:32 AM
 
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It's more important to ask "Why" not "When."

1. The British Empire. At one point, the British directly or indirectly controlled one-fourth of the world's land area. That's a pretty staggering number. Meanwhile, the French influence has been waning since Napoleon began his retreat from Moscow.

2. Even as British power eclipsed, American power came on the stage. It's hard to believe today, but the United States was mostly an isolationist power until World War I compared to the Europeans, and only became a truly international player in World War II. The U.S. moved into the power vacuum left at the end of the war when it was the only country capable of staring down the Soviet Union.

3. The other thing about the post-war age that's hard to comprehend today was the enormous economic advantage the United States enjoyed in worldwide trade. Europe's industrial capacity was shattered, as was Japan's. Elsewhere, economies were still in a stage of immaturity. Only the United States and, to some degree, Canada had a manufacturing capacity that was untouched by the war. So with such a huge preponderance of economic might, the United States had twenty years of unmatched economic hegemony and the world's biggest market. So you either learned English or were irrelevant. English also became the de facto language of academia.

4. An interesting byproduct of the British Empire is the spread of English to all parts of the globe, often becoming the substitute language for a colonized people. Look at India. With the exception of the United States, India has more speakers of English than any other country. The Times of India has the largest circulation of any English-language paper in the world. Almost 50% of Pakistan's population speak English. All because in many countries, the sheer number of spoken languages (In India, more than 30 languages are spoken by more than a million people) made English a convenient alternative -- one that didn't require giving one ethnic group supremacy over another. The same is true in countries such as the Philippines.

5. The pervasiveness of American and English cinema, literature, and music, all of which are language-driven art forms.

6. The continuing pioneering of English-language speakers in the realm of the sciences and the industries of the information age. The internet has only accelerated this.

7. Lastly, it is the nature of the English language itself. It is a highly flexible and adaptive language that is constantly acquiring new vocabulary which, in turn, adds new nuances and precision. For example, some academic with lots of time on his hands found that sentences translated from English to other languages, on average, require 30% more words. Further, while English can be highly idiomatic, it also lacks a highly rigid grammatical form. Compare this to Slavic languages such as Russian which have a lot more cases and even have case-driven adjective endings (Trust me. I sweated out three years of Russian). On the other hand, France really blew it when it instituted an academy dedicated to adjudicating which words were allowed into the French language. Meanwhile, English picks up thousands and thousands of words indiscriminately every year, words you don't even think about, such as Shampoo and Cot from Sanskrit. In that sense, English unconsciously stopped being a colonialist language and began being a world language through its promiscuity.

Last edited by cpg35223; 02-28-2014 at 08:00 AM..
 
Old 02-28-2014, 03:50 PM
 
Location: SoCal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
But my point was, do you seriously think Russian would have competed with English, communism or not?
No, but without the fall of Communism, I don't think that English would have been as much of an unofficial global lingua franca as it indeed ended up being after the end of the Cold War. This is the point which I was previously trying to make.
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