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Old 02-12-2008, 08:41 AM
 
630 posts, read 1,875,066 times
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I know this will get WW2 buffs going,but in my opinion,this tank fit perfectly into the US Army's flawed doctrine,where tanks didn't fight other tanks,and truly,it was a good reliable weapon system against anything else it faced,fire away people!
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Old 02-12-2008, 09:04 AM
 
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
1,482 posts, read 5,175,378 times
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When you consider it wasn't classed as a heavy tank it did exactly what they designed it to do. More importantly they could build enough of them and get them where they were needed. You could have built a better tank but you probably would have had production problems and you would have been limited on where they could go and how you could get them there.
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Old 02-12-2008, 09:09 AM
 
6,565 posts, read 14,300,508 times
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True.... Let's be honest here... The Allieds didn't have anything that could go head-to-head with a Tiger and an 88mm shell is going to tear a hole in almost anything it hits.
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Old 02-12-2008, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Oz
2,238 posts, read 9,758,676 times
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Give me that sexy Tiger any day.
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Old 02-12-2008, 09:41 AM
 
28,895 posts, read 54,177,901 times
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You know, I went to church with a veteran who wrote a booklength, scathing critique of the Sherman Tank.

That being said, from what I've read, the Sherman simply was not designed to duke it out with Panthers and Tigers (Although there are recorded instances of Shermans beating Panthers based on the speed of turret traverse). American doctrine was to bypass positions, and let our superb artillery take care of any German heavy tanks.

Instead, the Sherman was designed to do one thing and do it well: Sprint across Western Europe after breakthrough, exploiting the rear area of the enemy lines. If you look at it, it makes perfect sense. It was a far more reliable engine than any German heavy or medium tank, far more easily repaired, the treads slipped at about one-fourth the rate of German tanks, and it was designed to be carried in an LST. Given the breakout across France in late July, 1944, the wisdom of this design cannot be refuted. In fact, the key blunder of the war in Western Europe was shifting resources from Patton and the Third Army, and giving them to Montgomery--who squandered the momentum during his stupid Market-Garden Campaign. Had the American First and Third Armies continued, they would have punched through what was left of the Siegfried Line in a matter of days, and would have been on the Rhine by October.

Instead, between Market Garden and the Hurtgen Forest, we lost precious months before winter, which enabled the Germans to launch the Ardennes Offensive. We still won the war, but we could have done so months and months earlier, with a lot of lives saved as a result.

With all that in mind, I would offer that, tactically, the Sherman was inferior to the German tanks but, strategically, it was incomparably superior.
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Old 02-12-2008, 09:54 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,340,545 times
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cpg35223 -

I have a real bone to pick with you. It seems EVERY post you make drives me to give you Rep points but I can't because I gave you one just a short while ago. So now you're going to make me go out and spread more Rep points around so that I can keep up with giving you the Rep points you deserve.

Man, you're just making me work tooooooo hard!
Cut it out!

LOL

No seriously, as always your posts are right on the mark.

Ken
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Old 02-12-2008, 10:29 AM
 
630 posts, read 1,875,066 times
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I'm very disappointed by the lack of criticism of my post!If we felt truly threatened by German armor,we could have gotten the M26 Pershing to the battlefield in greater numbers much faster,upgunned to the 17pdr(77mm)or 90mm faster when it proved that the upgunned 76mm Sherman wasn't a world beater versus armor,Ike was banking on this weapon and it dissapointed severely.I believe it represents the one time in WW2 when the US made a decision for quantity over quality and thus larger casualties in the armored forces,lets see if THAT gets us started!
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Old 02-12-2008, 10:35 AM
 
14,994 posts, read 23,903,426 times
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No debate with anything written here. But in regards to the German tanks - I think the Russian KV tanks and even the French tanks (during that 1940 period anyways) outgunned and outweigned the German tanks.

Russian tanks were more than a match one-on-one for the Tigers. What the German's had, however, were superior tactics in mobile warfare. That and the German 88's as an antitank gun.
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Old 02-12-2008, 10:39 AM
 
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
1,482 posts, read 5,175,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitroae23 View Post
I believe it represents the one time in WW2 when the US made a decision for quantity over quality
What about liberty ships?

Last edited by ImRandy; 02-12-2008 at 11:33 AM.. Reason: Added the quote so my post would make more sense.
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Old 02-12-2008, 10:45 AM
 
28,895 posts, read 54,177,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
No debate with anything written here. But in regards to the German tanks - I think the Russian KV tanks and even the French tanks (during that 1940 period anyways) outgunned and outweigned the German tanks.

Russian tanks were more than a match one-on-one for the Tigers. What the German's had, however, were superior tactics in mobile warfare. That and the German 88's as an antitank gun.
Interesting note there. The T-34 was actually designed by J. Walter Christie, an American designer, who also designed the British Crusader tank.

And, yes, you're right. The key was in tactics, not armor plating. The French had more tanks, but completely didn't understand combined arms. They considered the tank as an infantry support weapon, thereby spreading their armor throughout the army. In fact, the French general staff went so far as to refuse the installation of radios in their tanks. Meanwhile, the Germans blitzkrieged their way through France in much lighter tanks, the mirror image of the Allied campaign in France in 1944.

Russians, after learning the rules of armor through the bitter lessons of 41 and 42, finally began to master breakthrough and exploitation tactics, doing so spectacularly with their destruction of the German Army Group Center in 1944.

But I really think the entire point is how the tank was intended to be used...to open huge holes in the enemy lines and run amok in the enemy's rear, not to engage in one-to-one combat with other tanks.
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