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Old 08-16-2015, 02:46 AM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
9,475 posts, read 10,824,407 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1003 View Post
And, 70 years later, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe on Friday expressed "profound grief" for the millions killed in World War II and remorse for his country's participation, but said that future Japanese generations shouldn't need to keep apologizing.

Japan never acknowledged their starting the war

The Japanese have at times acknowledged that the war was their fault, however you are right that they don't like too. I do understand though the thinking behind what the Prime Minister said. No nation wants to keep talking about their evil deeds from decades ago. It is over and they paid an awful price for what they did. Considering they have been a peaceful productive nation ever since , and they almost always show up on the side of right when things happen I think we should let it go. They deserve their national dignity. I feel the same way about Germany. It is not right to keep beating them over the head with WW2 70 years after it is over, and those nations have clearly reformed. We have plenty of modern belligerent powers to look at, no need to rehash historical events that have been resolved.
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Old 08-16-2015, 04:49 AM
 
1,906 posts, read 2,043,252 times
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"Houston, we've had a problem here." - Jack Swigert, Apollo 13
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Old 08-16-2015, 03:35 PM
 
7,580 posts, read 5,338,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwruckman View Post
The Showa Emperor's broadcast to the subjects of Imperial Japan isn't so far off the mark.
It was grotesquely off the mark.

"Our thought either to infringe upon the sovereignty of other nations or to embark upon territorial aggrandizement."

"Should We continue to fight, not only would it result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization."

"We cannot but express the deepest sense of regret to Our Allied nations of East Asia, who have consistently cooperated with the Empire towards the emancipation of East Asia."

"We have resolved to pave the way for a grand peace for all the generations to come by enduring the unendurable and suffering what is unsufferable."

Japan's allied nations of East Asia? Who would that be? Japan had collaborators but willing Allies?

Considering that Japan became after the war "one of richest, most peaceful and technologically advanced nations in the world,"in no small part due to American largesse was hardly enduring the unendurable and suffering the insufferable particularly considering what nations under Japanese occupation endured and suffered.
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Old 08-16-2015, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Southeast, where else?
3,913 posts, read 5,236,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
"How many divisions does the Pope have?" (Josef Stalin, to Winston Churchill - 1945)
Better yet..


In the days when Stalin was Commissar of Munitions, a meeting was held of the highest ranking Commissars, and the principal matter for discussion was the famine then prevalent in the Ukraine. One official arose and made a speech about this tragedy — the tragedy of having millions of people dying of hunger. He began to enumerate death figures … Stalin interrupted him to say: “If only one man dies of hunger, that is a tragedy. If millions die, that’s only statistics.”

Unfortunately, it needed up being true on a global scale. Russia suffered 20,000,000 plus dead. Roughly 40% of all people killed during WWII globally. Russia, Poland, Japan, and the total compiled in the concentration camps. Hitler managed to kill 11.5 million.

When these are viewed in a statistical perspective, its an understatement. However, when viewed through the eyes of the living pondering the dead, it's beyond an understatement. It's beyond comprehension. It simply can't be allowed to happen again.
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Old 08-16-2015, 04:34 PM
 
7,580 posts, read 5,338,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Longstreet View Post
Stalin interrupted him to say: “If only one man dies of hunger, that is a tragedy. If millions die, that’s only statistics.”
I've always taken that quote at face value but in recent years I've taken to checking the validity of quotations thanks to the many sites on the internet that are interested in finding the historical attribution of famous and infamous quotations.

The veracity of the above quote does appears to come under question.

A Single Death is a Tragedy; a Million Deaths is a Statistic | Quote Investigator
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Old 08-16-2015, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,104 posts, read 5,998,413 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Longstreet View Post
Better yet..


In the days when Stalin was Commissar of Munitions, a meeting was held of the highest ranking Commissars, and the principal matter for discussion was the famine then prevalent in the Ukraine. One official arose and made a speech about this tragedy — the tragedy of having millions of people dying of hunger. He began to enumerate death figures … Stalin interrupted him to say: “If only one man dies of hunger, that is a tragedy. If millions die, that’s only statistics.”

Unfortunately, it needed up being true on a global scale. Russia suffered 20,000,000 plus dead. Roughly 40% of all people killed during WWII globally. Russia, Poland, Japan, and the total compiled in the concentration camps. Hitler managed to kill 11.5 million.

When these are viewed in a statistical perspective, its an understatement. However, when viewed through the eyes of the living pondering the dead, it's beyond an understatement. It's beyond comprehension. It simply can't be allowed to happen again.
Even a limited nuclear exchange is estimated to easily reach that level of killing for example a nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan or a counterforce nuclear strike focused on US nuclear missile, US Strategic Command (US Bombers) and SSBM bases plus the handful of nuclear weapon manufacturing and development sites.
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Old 08-16-2015, 08:01 PM
 
8,896 posts, read 5,385,644 times
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“I have offended God and mankind because my work did not reach the quality it should have.”

Leonardo da Vinci
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Old 08-25-2015, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
16,565 posts, read 10,672,468 times
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I am currently reading For That One Day, the autobiography of Mitsuo Fuchida, the man who lead the air raid on Pearl Harbor. He describes his reaction to hearing the Emperor announce the surrender thusly:

"For the past 25 years, I had maintained myself as an officer of the Imperial Military Forces, meaning, of course, the Emperor's Military Forces. My inadequate work as an officer resulted in His Majesty being forced to make such a heart-rending broadcast. I felt truly sorry."

So in other words, Japan lost the war solely and exclusively because Fuchida, personally, didn't try hard enough. This level of personal blame-assumption is completely beyond my comprehension.
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Old 08-25-2015, 08:53 AM
 
2,362 posts, read 1,928,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseWino View Post
To call it an understatement is far, far too kind. In my mind it was pure revisionist bs. My points of contention have been placed in bold.

TO OUR GOOD AND LOYAL SUBJECTS:

After pondering deeply the general trends of the world and the actual conditions obtaining in Our Empire today, We have decided to effect a settlement of the present situation by resorting to an extraordinary measure.

We have ordered Our Government to communicate to the Governments of the United States, Great Britain, China and the Soviet Union that Our Empire accepts the provisions of their Joint Declaration.

To strive for the common prosperity and happiness of all nations as well as the security and well-being of Our subjects is the solemn obligation which has been handed down by Our Imperial Ancestors and which lies close to Our heart.

Indeed, We declared war on America and Britain out of Our sincere desire to ensure Japan's self-preservation and the stabilization of East Asia, it being far from Our thought either to infringe upon the sovereignty of other nations or to embark upon territorial aggrandizement.

But now the war has lasted for nearly four years. Despite the best that has been done by everyone – the gallant fighting of the military and naval forces, the diligence and assiduity of Our servants of the State, and the devoted service of Our one hundred million people – the war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage, while the general trends of the world have all turned against her interest.

Moreover, the enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to do damage is, indeed, incalculable, taking the toll of many innocent lives. Should We continue to fight, not only would it result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization.

Such being the case, how are We to save the millions of Our subjects, or to atone Ourselves before the hallowed spirits of Our Imperial Ancestors? This is the reason why We have ordered the acceptance of the provisions of the Joint Declaration of the Powers.

We cannot but express the deepest sense of regret to Our Allied nations of East Asia, who have consistently cooperated with the Empire towards the emancipation of East Asia.

The thought of those officers and men as well as others who have fallen in the fields of battle, those who died at their posts of duty, or those who met with untimely death and all their bereaved families, pains Our heart night and day.

The welfare of the wounded and the war-sufferers, and of those who have lost their homes and livelihood, are the objects of Our profound solicitude.

The hardships and sufferings to which Our nation is to be subjected hereafter will be certainly great. We are keenly aware of the inmost feelings of all of you, Our subjects. However, it is according to the dictates of time and fate that We have resolved to pave the way for a grand peace for all the generations to come by enduring the unendurable and suffering what is unsufferable.

Having been able to safeguard and maintain the structure of the Imperial State, We are always with you, Our good and loyal subjects, relying upon your sincerity and integrity.

Beware most strictly of any outbursts of emotion which may engender needless complications, or any fraternal contention and strife which may create confusion, lead you astray and cause you to lose the confidence of the world.

Let the entire nation continue as one family from generation to generation, ever firm in its faith in the imperishability of its sacred land, and mindful of its heavy burden of responsibility, and of the long road before it.

Unite your total strength, to be devoted to construction for the future. Cultivate the ways of rectitude, foster nobility of spirit, and work with resolution – so that you may enhance the innate glory of the Imperial State and keep pace with the progress of the world.

(Hirohito's signature and Privy Seal)
Reading this would make me want to march into the palace, drag the emperor and his officials out to the street, and put bullets in the back of their heads...how can any human being live with the fact that they killed millions of women and children in their quest for power, land, to expand an empire...it boggles my mind
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Old 08-25-2015, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
16,565 posts, read 10,672,468 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseWino View Post
Indeed, We declared war on America and Britain out of Our sincere desire to ensure Japan's self-preservation and the stabilization of East Asia, it being far from Our thought either to infringe upon the sovereignty of other nations or to embark upon territorial aggrandizement.
To be able to say that, while maintaining a straight face, requires superhuman abilities. I guess that's why he got to be Emperor and I didn't.
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