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It would have been still the underdeveloped and poor country, but it wouldn't have been radical cockroach-infested place as it is today - that's for sure.
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Did we arm the wrong crowd?
Oh no, it was the "right crowd" indeed, the crowd of "moderate rebels" as they are called.
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Just finished reading Beneath the Burqa's, the story of 2 women who managed to escape Afghanistan, separately, their brief life under Communism vs. the Taliban and its predecessor.
The oldest one welcomed the Communists, if nothing else, for the equality of women, the freedom to wear Lev's, not even wear a scarf, educational opportunities. And don't we all know how the Communists view religion?
That's right, Russians knew how to keep Islam at bay back in Soviet days and equal rights given to women ( equal to their own women that is) was one of the staples. It effectively castrated Islam.
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Then the nightmare came! The Taliban! The Religious Police catches a woman wearing fingernail polish, chop the fingers off! A woman walking a few steps ahead of her husband, both were beaten, him for allowing the wife to walk ahead of him, her for walking ahead of her husband. Medical care cut off to women. A Dr. found treating a woman could be executed.
Now, would this have happened under full control of the Communists?
The destruction of radical Islamists comes to mind.
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Or would the extremist sects have found a way, without military help from the Americans, in driving the Russians out anyway?
No, the roaches infested that place because of American help. They wouldn't be able to accomplish what they did if not for this *friendly military support* from *special friends.*
With all the tax money the USA had spent fighting the Taliban, we could have paid off every Afghan citizen and require them to move to a bordering country. Few would have refused being offered $35,000 per person (cost of war per citizen in 2015) and to move to their brethren in Tajikistan, Iran, or Pakistan.
The USA would have had their 51st state (or territory) and it being a no-go zone for anybody but their troops or mining companies for a decade or so. We could have restored the Buddha statues and gotten all the copper and minerals. Adventure and hunting tourism permitted. And immediate aerial bombardment of any attempt of insurgents to infiltrate.
As a side note we would own one of the centers of opium growth and could prevent this areas forever going into production of it again.
Since Soviet invasion lead to radicalization and Taliban, it is a stretch. Obviously, two happy burkaless women haven't been to Siberea concentration camps where their wombs would have fell out of their bodies from hunger and exhaustion. TS Good vs Evil excercise is quite amuzing considering that Muslim extremists are nowhere near matching Soviet rates of mass murder and repression, but who cares as long as girls wear no burkas and can get laid, it is worth it.
Since Soviet invasion lead to radicalization and Taliban, it is a stretch.
There was already radicalization, the socialist Afghan government was battling the radical insurgency, that is why they requested Soviet assistance.
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Originally Posted by RememberMee
Obviously, two happy burkaless women haven't been to Siberea concentration camps where their wombs would have fell out of their bodies from hunger and exhaustion.
Still stuck in Stalin's time are we? Is that what the total existence of the USSR is to you, nothing but Stalin's policies?
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Originally Posted by RememberMee
TS Good vs Evil excercise is quite amuzing considering that Muslim extremists are nowhere near matching Soviet rates of mass murder and repression, but who cares as long as girls wear no burkas and can get laid, it is worth it.
Again, still stuck in Stalin's time? Do you also believe the US still deports Native Americans out west?
Fact is every former Soviet country today is better than Afghanistan currently is. Fact is there were numerous refugees who fled Afghanistan during the Soviet-Afghan war to the USSR. If the USSR was in fact so bad, no one would have voluntarily fled to there. Even today in Central Asian countries and Russia, many people who have fled Afghanistan.
I bet many Afghans wish they were the equivalent of even the most undeveloped former Soviet country, like Uzbekistan or Turkmenistan.
There was already radicalization, the socialist Afghan government was battling the radical insurgency, that is why they requested Soviet assistance.
And socialist or leftist government just appeared out of nowhere in that semi-feudal country? A semi-feudal country that nevertherless had a parlament and democratic ways to keep different factions in a ballance. How come soviets assasinated Afghan president who alledgedly invited them?
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Still stuck in Stalin's time are we? Is that what the total existence of the USSR is to you, nothing but Stalin's policies?
It's not about Stalin, it is about Soviet system allowing and enabling Stalins. Sure, Brezhnev regime was milder, soviet just institutionalized and tortured dissidents back then, but the potential remained to go back in time to wipe out the enemies of the people Stalin way.
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Again, still stuck in Stalin's time? Do you also believe the US still deports Native Americans out west?
Poor analogy. There were just that many Indians and there were countless shrewd enemies inside and outside of the Soviet motherland. It was up to imagination of dear leaders to decide who were the enemies and what to do about them. What was so different about Brezhnev USSR so you believe mass purges, starvation & deportations could not have been perpetrared again?
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Fact is every former Soviet country today is better than Afghanistan currently is. Fact is there were numerous refugees who fled Afghanistan during the Soviet-Afghan war to the USSR.
That's some amusing claim, you trash somebody's house and then brag about the comfort of yours, even though former Soviet republics in Central Asia and partially Russia re-invented sorta criminal feudalism. Actually out of 15 former Soviet Republic 10 blissfully settled in feudalism, 2 struggle to overcome Soviet legacy, and just 3 Baltic states escaped the post soviet doom.
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If the USSR was in fact so bad, no one would have voluntarily fled to there. Even today in Central Asian countries and Russia, many people who have fled Afghanistan.
Some Soviet pow settled in Afghanistan. What's your point? Most of the wars are not the wars of annihilation. Some were killed, (1 million actually) some become collaborants, some collaborants were shipped to USSR for education and training, the number of refugees was non existent, you imagining it. Think , the simple presence of Afghan refugees on the Soviet soil was ideologically unacceptable.
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I bet many Afghans wish they were the equivalent of even the most undeveloped former Soviet country, like Uzbekistan or Turkmenistan.
Please, google before posting. Those are bleak places on par with Afganistan. Was killing 1 million + of Afghans acceptable price for whatever social advances you imagened for yourself?
Btw, prior to Soviet meddling plenty of Afghan women could wear whatever in the hell they wanted. I sense influence of the Russian "civilizators" on you. Russians have this longing for "white man burden" called to validate their bloody miserable history and present, they concoct some crazy arse alternative histories where Russia is beam of light in the dark Universe, Russians generate messianic bs by megatonnes so some inexperienced minds can be swayed. In fact 'As a girl, I remember my mother wearing miniskirts and taking us to the cinema. My aunt went to university in Kabul.'
If We Had Supported The Russian Takeover of Afghanistan
No way that would have happened. Reagan was a proud supporter of the mujaheddin, who later became the Taliban. Foreign intruders have never fared well in Afghanistan. It draws them into unwinnable quagmires, but they never learn. There's really nothing in that dusty hellhole other than camel turds and hostile residents. The Russians made no difference and neither did we. It's still the same old dump it's always been. A thousand years from now, it'll be the same.
Here's a good, simple read of why the Soviets 'invaded' Afghanistan. The communist Afghan government requested help from the Soviets to help put down a rebellion. The last thing the U.S. was going to do was help communists defeat a rebellion. We also need to remember that there was fear in the west that if the Soviets succeeded in Afghanistan it would put them next to Iran and a lot of Mideast oil. I recall anchor John Chancellor on NBC Nightly News mentioning that. There was deep concern about the Soviets wanting to control the world's oil supply.
I recall back in those days it was popular sentiment in the U.S. that when our government decided to give hand held surface to air launchers/missiles to the rebels that it was payback for the Soviets giving the North Vietnamese intel regarding where our jets would be flying setting them up to be shot down during that war, and many were.
The Cold War wasn't so bloodless as younger people who weren't around back then might believe.
Now, would this have happened under full control of the Communists? Or would the extremist sects have found a way, without military help from the Americans, in driving the Russians out anyway?
The Mujahideen/Taliban would not have been able to usurp control from the government
without American/Nato/Israeli/Saudi backing.
Once again, "making enemies and ruining lives everywhere": the American slogan.
The Mujahideen/Taliban would not have been able to usurp control from the government
without American/Nato/Israeli/Saudi backing.
Once again, "making enemies and ruining lives everywhere": the American slogan.
I always thought that women who get raped and rare do-gooders who try to help them are responsible for all that violence, if only they could learn how to enjoy the experience all that mindess violence and loss of life could be avoided.
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If We Had Supported The Russian Takeover of Afghanistan
