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Old 08-14-2016, 12:21 AM
 
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By "good" I am talking in terms of one that wasn't completely insane/power hungry/a megalomaniac and actually tried to good for the common people? I get that there was usually always war and conquest but of course besides the Emperor there were lots of others involved that would pressure him to do go to war or kill innocent people for personal gain, but under the constraints of those of the time were there any that say, if were around today wouldn't be that bad to hang out with? Or actually be looking to do some good under our system?
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Old 08-14-2016, 12:58 AM
 
Location: Caverns measureless to man...
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Oh, sure, there were several who were very good - especially by the standards of that age. Augustus would be the first on my list, but Marcus Aurelius and Antoninus Pius come to mind, as well as Hadrian and Trajan. As far as the "love to hang with 'em" criteria is concerned, I'd have been fascinated to spend an evening conversing with Augustus - possibly one of the most complex and deeply intriguing of any Roman emperor I can think of, and Marcus Aurelius would have been good company too. He was quite the philosopher. And I expect that any of the men I named would have taken quite readily to our modern system of politics, and probably been quite successful at it.
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Old 08-14-2016, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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When reading the Twelve Caesars one should note that the author was writing in the time of a new dynasty with no connection to the previous line. So previous emperors will be seen in a poor light. Similar to how Procopius' Secret History blackened Justinian and Theodora.

Then of course we have standards of human life in their day vs. human life in others and the danger of transposition.
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Old 08-14-2016, 07:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert_The_Crocodile View Post
Marcus Aurelius
One of the cruelest butchers in all history.
The Fourth Persecution, Under Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, A.D. 162
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Old 08-14-2016, 12:19 PM
 
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Haven't got time to elaborate on all of them, but some of he better ones were...

Augustus

Tiberius (presented as a sex pervert, and there were the Sejanus purges, but was actually very good at conserving money and using diplomacy)

Claudius

Vespasan

Titus (Very brief eign, though)

Trajan (debatable. Very popular military expansionist)

Hadrian (some caveats. pesoanlly very cruel, but kept it contained and had good policies).

Antoninus Pius

Marcus Auerilus

Lucius Verus (some caveats here. did very well in Persia)

Septimius Severus- (Some caveats. A pitiless man, but brutally efficient. Sensible refroms.)

Constantine (ruthless, but restored the empire to its full power)

Julian (alas, died too early)

Theodosius


I don;t know as much about he Byzantine/roman era, but I read the Alexiad and Alexius Comnemus was definatley worthy fo the greats.
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Old 08-14-2016, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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Cachi, I recall about 20 years ago the Economist used the latin expression "He would have been a better ruler if he had never ruled" for an emperor in the year of confusion following Nero's demise as one was much anticipated but terrible when he actually ruled. Hence the contemporary roman expression.

Do you know which one was referred to? Otho, Vitellus, Galba?
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Old 08-14-2016, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Caverns measureless to man...
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Originally Posted by Snowball7 View Post
One of the cruelest butchers in all history.
The Fourth Persecution, Under Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, A.D. 162
Well, that's just nonsense.

I looked at the page you linked, and was not surprised to find that it's a poorly-written, 3rd-rate christian fanatic site. The writing was so bad I didn't read it very thoroughly or get very deep into it, but I got the sense it drew heavily from the works of Eusebius, who is considered by most credible researchers to be one of the more unreliable and biased of the early christian historians. At any rate, whether it derives from Eusebius' work or not, it's crap.

Characterizing Marcus Aurelius as "one of the cruelest butchers in all history" is a ludicrous exaggeration, and not supported by any credible historian. During that period, christians were widely disliked and distrusted by the general public, and the empire's approach to christianity was mostly a reflection and acknowledgement of the public hatred of christians. While christianity was technically, vaguely, somewhat against the law, emperors of Marcus Aurelius' era tended to be tolerant of christians and relatively lenient in their application of the laws. Almost all persecution of christians in that period was carried out by provincial governors and local officials, often in response to demands from their communities. To a significant degree, Roman law actually provided some degree of protection for christians from the hostility and prejudices of the populace and from mob violence.

It is true that it was during the reign of Aurelius that anti-christian sentiments and persecution began to grow rapidly, but that was due more to his increasing laxity in protecting christians than any deliberate persecution of them. It's considered likely that he wasn't even aware of the extent to which local officials in the provinces were stepping up their persecution of christians, and it wasn't until around a hundred years later that a Roman emperor issued an actual edict against the religion. Can't recall which emperor that was but the year 260 AD sticks out in my mind. Can't recall who that was, and don't care to google it at the moment, but it was only about 50 years after that the religion was legalized. The hysterical christian myths about widespread persecution at the hands of Rome is fiction, largely promulgated by early christians to feed their martyr complex and whip their followers into a frenzy, and calling Marcus Aurelius "one of the cruelest butchers in all history" is pure fantasy.
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Old 08-14-2016, 09:11 PM
 
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OP, you ever wondered, why emperors were so much afraid of "the people" and tried to "court them" at any occasion?

The legitimacy of an emperor's rule depended on his control of the army and recognition by the Senate; an emperor would normally be proclaimed by his troops, or invested with imperial titles by the Senate, or both. The first emperors reigned alone; later emperors would sometimes rule with co-Emperors and divide administration of the Empire between them.
The Romans considered the office of emperor to be distinct to that of a king. The first emperor, Augustus, resolutely refused recognition as a monarch.[1] Although Augustus could claim that his power was authentically Republican, his successor, Tiberius, could not convincingly make the same claim.[2] Nonetheless, for the first three hundred years of Roman Emperors, from Augustus until Diocletian, a great effort was made to emphasize that the Emperors were the leaders of a Republic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_emperor

Same was in Byzantine.Why I'm saying this? Because there is a lot of populistic modifications to the real history.
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Old 08-18-2016, 06:13 AM
 
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The best emperor ever by modern eyes, as a progressive man that thoght aboutr the poorest and the future: Nero
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Old 08-18-2016, 01:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by joevalenti View Post
The best emperor ever by modern eyes, as a progressive man that thoght aboutr the poorest and the future: Nero
You raise an interesting point. It has been postulated that some of the monsters, Caligula and Nero most specifically, were not vicitms of propoganda because they favored the people over the Senatorial class.

I don't think we can ever really know, but is is worth mentioning.
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