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...which suggests that they are moving backwards in this area rather than progressing.
So how is it that increased individual enterprise has not led to increased individual liberty?
Thoughts?
Its all in the origin of their new found freedom, in China freedom is doled out by the gvmnt.
Thats not real liberty, its merely permission.
In America freedom comes from God. Therefore gvmnt cannot infringe.
It plays out, China is a great imitator, copier.
But they are useless at coming up with new ideas.
They are wise but their inventiveness is impaired because they are not free.
When China fully evolves they might end up like Britain, Englishmen are subjects , not citizens.
This is why its very dangerous to flirt with socialism. It attracts some because it alleviates responsibility.
But with the gvmnts silver comes the gvmnt shackles.
Its all in the origin of their new found freedom, in China freedom is doled out by the gvmnt.
Thats not real liberty, its merely permission.
In America freedom comes from God. Therefore gvmnt cannot infringe.
It plays out, China is a great imitator, copier.
But they are useless at coming up with new ideas.
They are wise but their inventiveness is impaired because they are not free.
When China fully evolves they might end up like Britain, Englishmen are subjects , not citizens.
This is why its very dangerous to flirt with socialism. It attracts some because it alleviates responsibility.
But with the gvmnts silver comes the gvmnt shackles.
Even though you've escaped from the Religion forums, you seem unable to discuss any topic without making it about 'God'. Indeed, you don't even seem to understand that many topics have nothing to do at all with your favorite deity.
In America freedom comes from God. Therefore gvmnt cannot infringe.
Hmmm. We are left wondering then why in our Constitution's preamble, the authors stated that it was the people who were instituting the government?
Quote:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
If they believed that the government was being instituted by a deity, why did they fail to mention this?
Hmmm. We are left wondering then why in our Constitution's preamble, the authors stated that it was the people who were instituting the government?
If they believed that the government was being instituted by a deity, why did they fail to mention this?
Hmm Grandstander...
Since we are putting it in theological context here, may I suggest that God is acting THROUGH people, and in this case we'll come to inescapable conclusion that SOME people ( and therefore nations) have upper hand comparably to other, and that's the reason why SOME will have "individual freedom" combined with "individual enterprise," while other will never have it , "individual enterprise" or not.
Hmm Grandstander...
Since we are putting it in theological context here, may I suggest that God is acting THROUGH people, and in this case we'll come to inescapable conclusion that SOME people ( and therefore nations) have upper hand comparably to other, and that's the reason why SOME will have "individual freedom" combined with "individual enterprise," while other will never have it , "individual enterprise" or not.
I was attempting to remove it from the theological context which jonesg introduced. "We" so far consists of you and jonesg.
I was attempting to remove it from the theological context which jonesg introduced. "We" so far consists of you and jonesg.
And that's fine, however quiet honestly I would have hard time explaining in any other terms why "individual enterprise" does not necessarily increase "individual liberty."
But you can look at Russia for example, and you'll notice the same thing - "individual enterprise" didn't bring "individual liberty." Not much different from China in this respect, so obviously something is amiss in these countries comparably to the "Western" world.
A bigger more important question is why do people think a democratic China will somehow be pro-Western? Do people really think that the Chinese want to be second class in their own region and let the US roam free within the Western Pacific? The US and China are destined to clash regardless of whether it is a democratic society because Chinese security interests require it to seek hegemony in the Pacific which the US is fundamentally opposed to regardless of whether China is democratic or Communist. When Imperial Japan was liberalizing during the Taisho period, it was still not a pro-Western country and the US was strongly opposed to Japanese actions in Asia regardless of whether it was democratizing. Russia being democratic and capitalist during the Yeltsin era didn’t stop the US from expanding NATO all over Eastern Europe or making overtures to the Caucasus and Central Asia. Also, notice that the only democratic and pro-Western countries in Asia are Japan and its former colonies which were all occupied and reformed by the US after World War II.
A bigger more important question is why do people think a democratic China will somehow be pro-Western? Do people really think that the Chinese want to be second class in their own region and let the US roam free within the Western Pacific? The US and China are destined to clash regardless of whether it is a democratic society because Chinese security interests require it to seek hegemony in the Pacific which the US is fundamentally opposed to regardless of whether China is democratic or Communist. When Imperial Japan was liberalizing during the Taisho period, it was still not a pro-Western country and the US was strongly opposed to Japanese actions in Asia regardless of whether it was democratizing. Russia being democratic and capitalist during the Yeltsin era didn’t stop the US from expanding NATO all over Eastern Europe or making overtures to the Caucasus and Central Asia. Also, notice that the only democratic and pro-Western countries in Asia are Japan and its former colonies which were all occupied and reformed by the US after World War II.
Can you please expand it a bit more - why exactly it's a case.
(I'm learning here too...)
Can you please expand it a bit more - why exactly it's a case.
(I'm learning here too...)
All of China's most important cities and industries are concentrated on the East Coast. The East Coast is the wealthiest, most populated, and most industrialized part of China and where virtually all of its trade is done. Almost all of China's most important trade routes are in the Western Pacific. Letting the US roam free in the Western Pacific leaves China vulnerable and exposes them to serious security risks. They really don't have a choice but to achieve a security perimeter/buffer in the Western Pacific to ensure that its East Coast is secure. Achieving this requires the US to relinquish South Korea, Japan (specifically Okinawa), and Taiwan which is virtually non negotiable to the US since the US considers those countries paramount to its security interests.
I think you can compare it to Russia and how important it is for Russia to maintain a Western security perimeter since almost all of its wealth and industry are concentrated in Western Russia. It's why losing Ukraine is not an option for Russia since Ukraine is flat and easily traversable to Western Russia which is a huge security risk to Russian prosperity.
All of China's most important cities and industries are concentrated on the East Coast. The East Coast is the wealthiest, most populated, and most industrialized part of China and where virtually all of its trade is done. Almost all of China's most important trade routes are in the Western Pacific. Letting the US roam free in the Western Pacific leaves China vulnerable and exposes them to serious security risks. They really don't have a choice but to achieve a security perimeter/buffer in the Western Pacific to ensure that its East Coast is secure. Achieving this requires the US to relinquish South Korea, Japan (specifically Okinawa), and Taiwan which is virtually non negotiable to the US since the US considers those countries paramount to its security interests.
I think you can compare it to Russia and how important it is for Russia to maintain a Western security perimeter since almost all of its wealth and industry are concentrated in Western Russia. It's why losing Ukraine is not an option for Russia since Ukraine is flat and easily traversable to Western Russia which is a huge security risk to Russian prosperity.
I think you have it backwards for China. The US needs military bases & access in order to pose a credible military threat in the Asia Pacific region, so it needs South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and would greatly appreciate more navigable water in the South China Sea rather than less. China's efforts appear targeted more at the principles of diplomacy than in actually achieving a security buffer. E.g., the principle that Taiwan is a part of China & the principle that the South China Sea is within the Chinese sphere.
Trade routes are protected by international law & the navies that enforce it.
I think the US recognizes that it offers two advantages to countries in East Asia: 1) security guarantees, and 2) diplomatic leadership. 2) waxes and wanes with different administrations, but 1) is supported on a bipartisan basis. The US wants those alliances because it is operating out of the Brzezinski playbook: the US needs footholds on the Asian continent, both in the west and in the east (and in the south, too, and ideally well inland, as well).
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however quiet honestly I would have hard time explaining in any other terms why "individual enterprise" does not necessarily increase "individual liberty." 
