Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-17-2017, 09:28 PM
 
17,874 posts, read 15,957,807 times
Reputation: 11661

Advertisements

Why did some places develop city states and others not so?

For example, Italy with Rome, some Etruscan cities, Greece, and nearby Lydia had city states. While Spain, Gaul, Dalmatia did not?

Sumer had city states, but Egypt did not. Persia also did not have city states and they formed an empire. China also did not have city states. They too developed into an empire.

After the dark ages, Italy once again formed into City states, while France, and Spain, and Germania did not. Kievan Rus started in Kiev, and eventuall Moscow became a city state that expanded and became Russia.

Why is that?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-17-2017, 10:37 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,218 posts, read 107,956,787 times
Reputation: 116167
Dalmatia didn't? What do you think Dubrovnik was? And Split? Romania also had principalities.


Also, don't forget the Mayan city-states.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2017, 11:04 PM
 
Location: The High Desert
16,093 posts, read 10,762,339 times
Reputation: 31499
Phoenician city-states existed at various places around the Mediterranean Sea as far west as Cadiz in Spain.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2017, 10:16 AM
 
14,994 posts, read 23,903,426 times
Reputation: 26529
I think they key is location, as you don't have natural resources a city-state must thrive by being trading and mercantile centers - which means ocean ports and locations on common trade routes, and development of certain niche areas such as banking. It must also be defensible so they aren't swallowed up by nation-states and empires.
Sometimes cities become "city-states" via treaties and international agreements, sort of a "share the wealth" compromise.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2017, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
2,858 posts, read 2,175,185 times
Reputation: 3032
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
Why did some places develop city states and others not so?

For example, Italy with Rome, some Etruscan cities, Greece, and nearby Lydia had city states. While Spain, Gaul, Dalmatia did not?

Sumer had city states, but Egypt did not. Persia also did not have city states and they formed an empire. China also did not have city states. They too developed into an empire.

After the dark ages, Italy once again formed into City states, while France, and Spain, and Germania did not. Kievan Rus started in Kiev, and eventuall Moscow became a city state that expanded and became Russia.

Why is that?
Many city states include area that are much larger than the city itself. Here's a map of Renaissance Italy and its "city states".

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ly_1494_AD.png

By this measure ancient Elam in Iran and the early Chinese states were city states at first.

The Indus Valley civilizations were also definitely city states.

I would guess that Egypt did not form city states because it's relatively isolated and the people did not need to wall themselves off from marauders.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2017, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
5,699 posts, read 4,933,827 times
Reputation: 4943
I think all empires started out as "city states", or as principalities that consisted of one city and the neighboring farmland and villages, something similar to Luxemburg. Then if one of these city states became powerful enough they would swallow up the surrounding city states forming a nation state/empire. Also it's possible if these city states were under some sort of threat, that hey could have formed alliances and over time merged into one nation state/empire. I think in some places this didn't occur as quickly such as Greece because of it's hilly terrain and irregular coast line, so it was probably harder for city states to invade each other, as opposed to china that developed on a huge flat flood plain. Also China used to consist of many smaller nations something on the scale of modern Europe.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2017, 01:22 AM
 
17,874 posts, read 15,957,807 times
Reputation: 11661
Also, where did these city states draw from to fill out their armies and navies? Some of these city states were powerful enough to become empires like Rome, and Carthage.

Also in Greece, most of city states located in the south below Thebes. Why no city states in Epirus, Thessaly or Thrace?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2017, 01:23 AM
 
17,874 posts, read 15,957,807 times
Reputation: 11661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Dalmatia didn't? What do you think Dubrovnik was? And Split? Romania also had principalities.


Also, don't forget the Mayan city-states.
You are right, but again, they come very late in the game.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2017, 09:56 AM
 
14,994 posts, read 23,903,426 times
Reputation: 26529
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
Also, where did these city states draw from to fill out their armies and navies? Some of these city states were powerful enough to become empires like Rome, and Carthage.

Also in Greece, most of city states located in the south below Thebes. Why no city states in Epirus, Thessaly or Thrace?
If you have the commerce and coin you have the army - mercenaries/sell swords. Carthage for instance used mercenary troops from all over the med - Gauls, Greeks including Spartans, Libyans, Nubians.
To this day you have the city-state of Vatican secured by Swiss Guards.
A navy first and foremost is a matter of money and materials to construct ships, manning them is relatively easy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-20-2017, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Independent Republic of Ballard
8,072 posts, read 8,372,561 times
Reputation: 6238
I think of a "city-state" as a largely self-governing political center, or polis. An incipient republic, at the least. Athens, Republican Rome, Florence. Not Corinth, Carthage, the Etruscan cities, which were all straight "one-party" oligarchies. The Etruscan cities were unable to unite against the Romans, because they were self-interested cartels, more than "states". There is talk of "primitive democracy" in Sumeria, but I'm skeptical - more likely they were entirely under the thumbs of priests.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:08 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top