History of Iraq and US relations

[Dd714]

Originally Posted by censusdata

The first Gulf War at the time seemed like a quick, decisive victory. And yet that war led directly to the two deadliest terror attacks in US history, the OKC bombing carried out by war veteran with PTSD Tim McVeigh and a 9/11 attack planned by an outraged Bin Laden. It's possible that in the year 2100 the FGW will be influencing world events more than WW2.

We are on the cusp of being off-topic but what you say above is a vast oversimplification if not outright incorrect. There is no direct link to these events. 9/11 occurred a decade after the Gulf War.

By all measures McVeigh's combat exposure in the First Gulf War was extremely limited and there is no indication he suffered from PTSD. There is evidence he became "radicalized" both before and after his stint in the army, and it was unrelated to his experiences in the Gulf War. Rather, I find your comments disturbing and an insult to the millions of veterans that DID see extensive combat and yet managed to return to normal civilian life without the urge to blow up buildings and commit mass murder.

Osama Bin Laden was not outraged over the First Gulf War necessarily, but by the continuing presence of American troops in Saudi Arabia. Really, it was anger about American foreign policy presense in the middle east in general, primarily our support for Israel. But if we are talking about the root causes of Islamic radicalism we would have to trace a winding complex path back to The Crusades, the collapse of the Ottaman Empire after WW1, the impact of European colonialism and the redrawing of borders, Cold War influences, the rise of Arab nationalism and the PLA...and so forth.

[stremba]

Originally Posted by Dd714

We are on the cusp of being off-topic but what you say above is a vast oversimplification if not outright incorrect. There is no direct link to these events. 9/11 occurred a decade after the Gulf War.

By all measures McVeigh's combat exposure in the First Gulf War was extremely limited and there is no indication he suffered from PTSD. There is evidence he became "radicalized" both before and after his stint in the army, and it was unrelated to his experiences in the Gulf War. Rather, I find your comments disturbing and an insult to the millions of veterans that DID see extensive combat and yet managed to return to normal civilian life without the urge to blow up buildings and commit mass murder.



Osama Bin Laden was not outraged over the First Gulf War necessarily, but by the continuing presence of American troops in Saudi Arabia. Really, it was anger about American foreign policy presense in the middle east in general, primarily our support for Israel. But if we are talking about the root causes of Islamic radicalism we would have to trace a winding complex path back to The Crusades, the collapse of the Ottaman Empire after WW1, the impact of European colonialism and the redrawing of borders, Cold War influences, the rise of Arab nationalism and the PLA...and so forth.

Or even further back to the origins of Islam itself and the example of Muhammed. Islam has always had as a basic tenant of the faith that spreading Islam by the sword is a desirable goal. The conquests of Islam began well before the Crusades, which originally were a response by the Christians in Europe to the conquest of the Christian holy land by Islam. Islam continued to spread via conquest right up until the fall of Constantinople and the conquest of Spain, which marked the maximal extent of its empire. Obviously, Islam was not able to hold on to its empire, but that does not mean that Muslims no longer believe in spreading Islam by conquest. Quite the contrary. There even is a large religious component to intra-Islamic conflicts such as the Iraq/Iran war. (To be fair, a large part of that conflict was ethnically based as well, dating all the way back to the Arab/Persian tensions within the Caliphate). Iran was primarily a Shiite state and Iraq was primarily Sunni. These two sects of Islam consider themselves the only "true" Muslims and certainly will not shy away from spreading the Sunni version of Islam into Shia areas (or vice-versa) by conquest.


TLDR version: It's quite likely that Bin Laden's stated grievance of US troops in Saudi Arabia was simply an excuse for committing acts of terrorism. It's also quite likely that had the US pursued different ME policies, there would have been other acts of terrorism perpetrated by other individuals based on other perceived grievances.