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That reminds me of another M16 question -- why were the clips a lot smaller back then than they are today?
To remain techincal a clip is not the same as a magazine.The M16 and similar weapons use a box magazine.
Full auto is only used in American military tactics for suppression or if on the verge of being over run where you put as much lead out before going hand to hand.
With a semi auto you can do just about the same in normal condition as with a full auto.
The M14 is a outmode weapom now days. The main intent of a gas operated wepon in military term is to keep teh rife on target for more than one round.When I was in the milatary I scored thousands of soldiers useing both the M14 and the M16. The average soldier was terrible with the M14 and much better with teh M16.The modern M16 now is a much refined weapon and there are protypes that will revolutionze military weapon.Eev ploice forces have gone to the multi shot theory when using deadly force they call it miukti tapping since the basic reason to shoot is to stop the person as quickly as possible to elimnate the threst.If you look at a vedioed police shoot out you will see that normally the average police officer reacts very differently in a shoot out and fires multiple times. Poice tend to use smaller 9mm weapons in multi fire sitautions with very short length for ease of use and the fact that the wepob isn't causing way off target stray bullets because of recoil, If youy have ever fired a M14 on full auto you would know it is a joke really because of recoil.Even a thompson in .45 cal that weighs a ton tends to climb in full auto. The browninbg .30 cal is in fact a much better full auto for about two shot that the M14 is because it weights two tons. With a pod it is a good full auto weapon.
Well the M14 has made a sort of limited comeback in Afghanistan where long range shots is better with the 7.62mm cartridge.It is being used in the designated marksman role in some units.
Current optics used on the M16/M4 has also given soldiers a better weapon for hitting at longer ranges and low light conditions.
I have the civilian version of the M16,AK and M14 and personally my favorite(for being a range shooter) is the M14 but the M16 is more accurate inheritantly and less weight to hump plus the m4 is better suited for vehicle mounted infantry.
You can talk to several ex or current military guys and some will prefere 7.62mm and some love their M4/M16.Guys I have talked to overall like the M4 because humping with all that gear and ammo is easier and for closer in conditions well placed 5.56mm usually does the job.
I carried both the M16A3 and M4, the A3 is being used now for mostly security duty from what I have personally seen, the M4 is great because it is light! Nothing worst than humping around a load, something that weighs a few pounds starts to feel heavy after carrying it all day.
The M14 is a great gun, they are being used by designated marksman in the Marines, at least the patrols I was with and it was the weapon I first qualified on. My friend has a civilian model of it and I love shooting that thing.
But I will take the M4 over it, regretfully, but a person needs to be a little practical.
god help us with that 16---look at our enemies and see that they have not varied from the7.62X39 in 58 yrs..with the m-i6 the safest place is in front of it.the rifle is only the delivery system.. the bullet and the shooter kills the target..try finding parts for it in a sandsstorm
The modern M16 only allows single shot or burst of three -- aren't there times in close quarter combat when you want to unload a lot more than three, especially considering somebody may have body armor and firing right back at you with an AK from the other side of a room -- in other words it's a "spray and pray" scenario? Sure, there are frag grenades and flashbangs for that sort of thing, but suppose you've run out? Wouldn't you want full auto in such circumstances?
You're thinking of the M16A2. The M16A1 had fully automatic fire, but they removed that option with the M16A2. The main reason why they did that is to maintain fire discipline to conserve ammunition. Automatic fire was pretty useful in the close quarters combat and jungle fighting of Vietnam. The reason why automatic fire was pretty useful in Vietnam is because many engagements were at less than 200 feet (automatic fire is more effect than single shots at about <70 feet, any more than that and it becomes very inaccurate) and the enemy often attacked from positions where they could not be clearly seen, so spraying some bushes with bullets was usually more effective than single, well-aimed shots at an enemy that you probably weren't even able to see.
Once Vietnam was out of the way, the US military decided to go for a more measured use of ammunition. One of the reasons why is that they found it there were about 4-10 times more rounds fired by infantry to kill an enemy than what was used in World War Two. Considering that the main potential war they were concerned about was the possibility of going to war against the Warsaw Pact nations (considering that if it didn't turn into a nuclear holocaust, it would have been on the scale of a World War), they didn't want soldiers using up ammo that fast and also considering that many of the battlefields would be exactly the same as in the Second World War, they wanted to have weapons that would be able to handle themselves as well in those conditions, so the M16A2 was developed to have single shot and three round burst capacity.
Now, in Iraq the soldiers are often again facing an enemy that they often can't see and who usually attacks in close quarters, has been known to use small wave attacks, and often hides in places where they are not easily seen and automatic fire has again proven its usefulness. Many of the small arms in Iraq are the M4, Colt Commando, or the M16A4, all of which belong to the M16 family and all of which are capable of full automatic fire.
IIRC the cyclic rate on the M-16 is so high, if you are not quick getting back off the trigger, you can empty a 20-round magazine in 1/20th of a minute - 3 seconds. 400 rounds per minute IIRC.
Not certain but I think the 3-round burst is more effective in actual use. Have never fired a full-auto but know guys who have, pretty much experts on it, and it's not as easy as it looks.
Personally I like the HK -91 or G-3 better, if it was up to me I'd issue these and in 7.62/308 caliber. Rounds that *hit* and *hit hard enough* are what really count IMHO.
I like the 3 round burst and believe uncontrolled full-auto fire is best left for history and Hollywood where men can fly and bullet wounds heal without causing lifelong disability and good guys never miss.
"The reason why automatic fire was pretty useful in Vietnam is because many engagements were at less than 200 feet (automatic fire is more effect than single shots at about <70 feet, any more than that and it becomes very inaccurate),,"
The real reason auto fire was so 'useful' in Vietnam is because it took 3 or more rounds of .223 ammo to achieve the same stopping power effect as just one round of .308. Bigger bullet means a bigger hole. Simple as that. Once the Brass decided the M-14 cost too much to make and phased it out, .223 and full auto was the only game left.
As far as I know the Brass never did place an M-14E1 (full auto) in a deployed combat role. There were some unit armorers who produced unlocked versions, and some sat in armories stateside and in Europe but the M-14E1 was never deployed. This is because even the Brass knew the concept of a light .308 Squad Weapon would be inaccurate and a waste of brass. The M-60 was therefore pressed into the squad auto weapon (SAW) role as the BAR replacement as well as filling the LMG role. At least until the FN designed M-249 was adapted. The US Navy was smart and hung on to their old Browning 1914s and 1916s as absolutely long as they could. In doing so, they avoided a lot of the teething problems the early M-60s experienced.
The M-14 is a superb one shot at a time weapon, and a VG replacement for the M-1. The Beretta BM-59 is just as good, but the G-3 (and the CETME looks like) falls short. The new 25 and 30 round magazines for the M-14 are interesting, but kind of useless for most sniper roles (good snipers fire one or two shots, then leave the vicinity before the artillery shells arrive). What I would like to see is a two or three round burst adapter for the M-14 in combination with the new shorter (lighter) barreled Scout produced by Springfield, perhaps in a no-frills bullpup stocked version. Now that would be an interesting weapon and a 30 round mag would make sense for that.
They weren't. They always came in 20 or 30 round magazines. 20 round mags were typically issued for guard duty at motor pools or ammo dumps.
the m16 only had 20 round mags. during the vietnam war.only 2o rds!i was there from 1966 to 1968, -20 rd. mags..ironically the first 30 rd mags were made for civilian use!you could buy them in catalogues,but you couldn't get them from supply or the armory,,,,same old story the truth is obscured in official denial and indifference
They beat on us to learn to tap off 3 round bursts (RVN) to avoid being ouverrun. A rifle company then , even very heavy was carring only 75,000 rounds. Amazing how quickly a rifleman can go through 450 rounds. Then you had to wait for supply hueys. M16 barrel is inline with the stock - unlike M14 etc that stock drop of 4 1/2 to 5 in provides a leverage fulcrum which causes the "pull". OK using words like "hump" you guys know what you're talking about. I have a question. When did the first Air National Guard unit get M16s? When did the 133 wing DC Air National Guard get them? thanks in advance. mike
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