Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
We've strayed from the original theme of this thread but I've always felt FDR and Churchill knew the attack was coming. I also believe that Yamamoto knew he had been sucked in when all three carriers just happened to be gone at the time of the attack.
It was the only way the American public would allow FDR to get into the war.
100% agree My Dad fought in WW II. He went to his grave swearing FDR and others knew.
Billy Mitchell was an officer in the US Army who fought in the Spanish American War and in World War 1. In the World War and after, he was a colonel but was bumped up to a temporary rank of Brigadier General when he was assigned to the Army Air Service. After WW1, he was an advocate of air power, went so far as to claim that air power would supplant both land and naval forces. Was so contentious with the Army and Navy brass that he was demoted back to colonel, removed from the Air Service, and sent to San Antonio to command ground troops. His criticism of the Army and Navy for air craft disasters led to his court martial, conviction, and dismissal from the Army in 1925.
In 1924, he inspected the air defenses at Pearl Harbor and found them so inadequate, he predicted that the Japanese would destroy the battleships there via aerial bombardment. Rather fantastically, he considered and dismissed the possibility of Japanese air craft carriers being capable of launching the bombers, and theorized a plan of Japanese submarines, carrying crated bomber aircraft, surreptitiously capturing an outlying island, creating an airfield, assembling the bombers, and using them to attack the naval station at Pearl Harbor.
Mitchell was basically correct that Japan could conduct an air attack upon the US Naval fleet at Pearl Harbor, sinking several battleships. But he didn't actually predict "the" Pearl Harbor attack, but rather a theoretical attack.
Do a little reading about General Billy Mitchell who predicted the Pearl Harbor attack in 1936.
I find the more interesting and more likely that FDR's WWII trigger was the start date for Operation Barbarossa, see What Was Operation Barbarossa? WW2 1941. FDR was in a hurry to recognize the USSR and Stalin's dubious "leadership" at the outset of his term, and displayed little interest in Japanese atrocities. He also assigned the USSR a leading role in the maintenance of world "peace" by making them a co-founder of the U.N.
The Japanese were an unwitting accomplice at best.
The idea that Pearl Harbor could be attacked at least in theory by Japanese naval air forces was was not lost on some people.There was a book about it written in the 20’s by an English author. And in the 30’s the idea was war gamed by our own military.
The bottom line of being caught flat footed on Dec 7th 1941 was simply a miss calculation by our military command that the Japanese were not capable of such a long range military operation. It was believed Japan would go to war but much further to the West principally against the Philippines and British and Dutch colonies.
We had some intelligence derived from code breaking but this information was poorly coordinated sometimes vague and not necessarily relayed to overseas Pacific commanders. Hence the formation of the CIA and other intelligence agencies post war.
Calling Roosevelt a traitor who betrayed the country and knew and let the Japanese attack happen is a fantasy. Roosevelt loved the Navy. He was Assistant Secretary of the Navy in his early career and collected naval ship models and prints and paintings.
The United States was also focused more on war in Europe. There was lend lease of military hardware to England. US destroyers escorted convoys of war goods across the Atlantic pre Pearl Harbor. And the US destroyer Rueben James was attacked and sunk by a U Boat before we declared war.
Calling Roosevelt traitor who betrayed the country and knew and let the Japanese attack happen is a fantasy. Roosevelt loved the Navy. He was Assistant Secretary of the Navy in his early career and collected naval ship models and prints and paintings.
I consider him a traitor but for entirely different reasons, which I outlined above (link) and other places. He was more a "leader of the world" than an advocate for the U.S.
Well ok. You are of course a self described contrarian and free thinker. We don’t agree on some historical events but nonetheless thanks for your input and keep the posts coming.
We've strayed from the original theme of this thread but I've always felt FDR and Churchill knew the attack was coming. I also believe that Yamamoto knew he had been sucked in when all three carriers just happened to be gone at the time of the attack.
It was the only way the American public would allow FDR to get into the war.
Well, Saratoga had just finished an overhaul at the Puget Sound navy yard, and arrived at NAS San Diego the afternoon of the 7th. Enterprise and escorts had left November 28 to take a load of F4F Wildcats to Wake Island. On the morning of the 7th, they were about 220 miles west of Oahu. Lexington and escorts had left December 5 with a load of Vought SB2U-3 Vindicators for a Marine squadron on Midway. On the 7th they were about 500 miles southeast of Midway.
I think the only time he knew he had been "sucked in" was when the bullets from American P-38s started tearing into the "Betty" bomber he was flying in.
Well, Saratoga had just finished an overhaul at the Puget Sound navy yard, and arrived at NAS San Diego the afternoon of the 7th. Enterprise and escorts had left November 28 to take a load of F4F Wildcats to Wake Island. On the morning of the 7th, they were about 220 miles west of Oahu. Lexington and escorts had left December 5 with a load of Vought SB2U-3 Vindicators for a Marine squadron on Midway. On the 7th they were about 500 miles southeast of Midway.
I think the only time he knew he had been "sucked in" was when the bullets from American P-38s started tearing into the "Betty" bomber he was flying in.
Enterprise was actually due to have arrived at Pearl Harbor the night before the attack, but was delayed by rough seas.
As for Yamamoto, it must be remembered that he was pretty well familiar with Americans, having attended college in the United States and having held various staff posts as an IJN liaison. He was well aware that, underneath our happy-go-lucky exterior, there was a toughness to the Yanks that should not be underestimated. And he knew that we had a strong sense of fair play. Attacking Pearl Harbor was bad enough, but doing it without having declared war first . . . he knew that we'd never forgive them for that. He probably knew that the war was lost as soon as he found out that they'd launched an undeclared attack.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
