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If you think that an intelligent person can always discern the "true" history by reading the conflicting claims
You speak for yourself. I can think of no other way to get at the truth than through critical examination of the claims concerning the truth. If this is beyond your capacities, or beyond your energies, then perhaps you will fall victim to indoctrination. My argument is that it is not necessary if one bothers to put in the effort.
I'm rather unclear on the nature of your complaints here. It is as though you think it is unfair that while you did not do your homework, you cannot get credit for it anyway. I certainly would not be announcing in public that I have been overwhelmed by indoctrination and that there was nothing I could do about it. This doesn't seem to bother you.
Most of the time you hear talk the importance of knowing history. I think it would interesting try talk the opposite of that.
Why do you think history is NOT important? Can you think any reason why would it be better if people didn't study history at all and it was just all forgotten? You can think of any reason why studying history is just waste of time and energy? Can you come up with good argument why studying ANY sort of history is dangerous and should be banned?
Note: I do personally think history is important and more you know the better.
We seem to have drifted rather afield from the OP, so I thought that might be revisited. The discussion seems to have gravitated to assigning culpability for the mass ignorance of history.
For a lay person, who has no influence on public perceptions, what is the value of studying history, except for personal self-gratifiation?
Studying history merely infuriates and depresses me, because it reveals to me today that the conventional wisdom and the machinations of the governance is even worse than I thought it was yesterday. What have I gained frlm that?
With all the studying of history, the number of people who believe that there is something venal taking place at Area 51 is about the same as the number of people who think that something venal is taking place at Guantanamo Bay. All the published studies of recent history and current affairs has had no effect on the perception of any concrete reality, in the face of misinformation and, more importantly, in the face of something to be gained from public ignorance.
If people who possess power make self-serving assertions, it does not matter if they are based on truth or falsehood.
"I certainly would not be announcing in public that I have been overwhelmed by indoctrination and that there was nothing I could do about it. This doesn't seem to bother you."
It doesn't bother me in the least to admit that I don't know everything. It doesn't bother me in the least to acknowledge that my views have been shaped with my interactions with others, starting with my parents and working my way forward in time and thought. It doesn't bother me in the least to know that what is written or conceptualized is not gospel, and those who claim to know the gospel truth may not have a full understanding of gospel, and just not know the truth.
Drifting back to the query of the OP, it appears that one must first define history as fact or fiction before questioning the validity of studying it. Even if we could be time-Travellers to the Civil War and exist and feel the burden of General Lee, we might not know all of the events transpiring. But that would be putting Descartes before de horse.
It doesn't bother me in the least to admit that I don't know everything.
That's the difference between us. It does bother me and I'm trying to do something about it. You seem to be waving the white flag..."We cannot defeat General Ignorance or Field Marshall Indoctrination." I wonder if you really mean what you are saying, you seem too bright to have gone through life with the attitude which you are promoting.
Not knowing history would allow us to make decisions today that are unfettered by irrelevancies of what happened 200 years ago.
Also, I think we sometimes put too much importance on past situations when analyzing similar situations in the present - that is neither fair nor should it yield accurate predictions, as the circumstances and world view of the populace are usually completely different.
Last, if history is truly written by the victors, then it's all biased, inaccurate, made-up tripe, anyway.
Well often times history is not the best teacher in war. Looking at world war I that the combatants used to preapare for the next war did very littole good in that things just chyanged too much; and were not recognised. It took deep into the war for all Naviy's to recognise that the decisive battle theory was wrong. It took even longer to recognise that mechanized would defeat strong defense everytime.Every war has a learning curve; in whch alot of mistakes are made because of history lesson which can't account for innovations and actually resist them.
That's the difference between us. It does bother me and I'm trying to do something about it. .
"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."--- Niebuhr
Not knowing everything seems to fall in the first category.
"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."--- Niebuhr
Not knowing everything seems to fall in the first category.
. What if one of the things you cannot change is not having the wisdom to know the difference?
Then God has not granted you what Niebuhr thought you needed.
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