Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Columbus never realized what he had "discovered". He thought he found a trade route to the West Indies and did not.
I find it refreshing that the truth is finally being taught and that we are not offering homage to someone who was just another sailor trying to find a cheaper passage to the indies to make a fast buck.
----
The entire American continent was colonized and discovered by sailors, soldiers and investors trying to make fast Thallers.
All the Spanish expeditions were Private Expeditions with a Castillian Charter, just like illegal English colonies in North America.
To me Columbus was a perfect example of a government bureaucrat.
He did not know really where he was going.
When he got where he ended up, he did not know really where he was.
He did it all with government money .....
---
Wrong.
Colombus was no bureaucrat, but a "privateer", a "corsary", a private entepreneur with no link to nobility.
He knew there was land there, but he didn't know what territory it was.
No, private money. Private companies from private harbours.
Isabella and the crown just put the collateral.
According to anthropologist Jack Weatherford, "Columbus set a precedent virtually every other explorer followed in the succeeding years: he financed his explorations by trading in the flesh of captured Indian slaves." In the first ten years of Columbus' voyages, thousands of slaves were sent to Seville and sold in cities throughout Europe. Thousands more were forcibly pressed into working early Caribbean mines and plantations. The rich silver mines of Hondurus later attracted Spanish adventurers and the Indians were brutally exploited.
An account of Columbus' second voyage written by crew member Miguel de Cuneo, relates that, of 1600 Indian slaves taken in a 1495 slave raid, only 550 could be taken on the ships. The remainder were divided among those men staying on the island. About two hundred of the 550 Indians taken aboard died and their bodies disposed at sea. De Cuneo's mentions
a gift by Columbus of an attractive Caribe woman given to him, whom de Cuneo admits he managed to subdue "only after a long fight and a thorough beating."
Note: Quoted material is from Native Roots: How the Indians Enriched America by Jack Weatherford. 1
In the U.S Classrooms, they are deforming Columbus' image and legacy to suit political and PC agendas.
I find that stupid. How can you judge history according to today's political agendas?
Colombus was no saint, he was very ambitious, dictatorial, a embezzler and a mercenary, but they are judging him for "the holocausts of Indians" or typical PC B.S he was not guilty for.
Problem with public education is that politicians play with our childrens.
If you killed iinocent people you are bad, today or whenever.
In the U.S Classrooms, they are deforming Columbus' image and legacy to suit political and PC agendas.
I find that stupid. How can you judge history according to today's political agendas?
Colombus was no saint, he was very ambitious, dictatorial, a embezzler and a mercenary, but they are judging him for "the holocausts of Indians" or typical PC B.S he was not guilty for.
Problem with public education is that politicians play with our childrens.
History should be written with facts and what took place, how people judge the actions or inactions on moral grounds is another matter. Even your opinion of him is rather pc in itself. You call him ambitious, mercenary etc, but that could be construed as a veil or certain 'coloring', tiptoeing around, trivializing or just outright deception as well. Political correctness can veer either way, that's why it's important to just stick with the facts. People can deduce the rest of the human elements and the consequences from that on their own.
The problem is it's almost never taught without a bias. the problem is often exaggerated glorification. Heroism or villainy or the extent to which can only be ascertained by knowing all the events, not just focus on the positives, glorification or the benign or the opposite, just the negative etc.
What happened to the people existing in the new world was not the fault of Columbus; he explored and discovered. He is not Stalin or Hitler. In Spain, after 1500 there was a debate on the status of the existing Native Americans - whether they were an equal or lesser culture. It can be simplified between the arguements of Father Antonio de Montesinos, Matias de Paz and Juan Lopez de Palacios Rubios. Obviously de Monesinos' point of view lost. It was a legal ruling years after Columbus. To blame Columbus, is like blaming Sir Franics Drake or John Smith for Wounded Knee. For those who kick Columbus, will they kick themselves and return their land to the Native Americans to right the wrong committed against them? I doubt it. - This liberal's perspective.
What happened to the people existing in the new world was not the fault of Columbus; he explored and discovered. He is not Stalin or Hitler. In Spain, after 1500 there was a debate on the status of the existing Native Americans - whether they were an equal or lesser culture. It can be simplified between the arguements of Father Antonio de Montesinos, Matias de Paz and Juan Lopez de Palacios Rubios. Obviously de Monesinos' point of view lost. It was a legal ruling years after Columbus. To blame Columbus, is like blaming Sir Franics Drake or John Smith for Wounded Knee. For those who kick Columbus, will they kick themselves and return their land to the Native Americans to right the wrong committed against them? I doubt it. - This liberal's perspective.
I will, I hereby renounce all my claims, real and imagined , to all Tribal Lands effective immediately.
Originally Posted by newhandle What happened to the people existing in the new world was not the fault of Columbus; he explored and discovered. He is not Stalin or Hitler. In Spain, after 1500 there was a debate on the status of the existing Native Americans - whether they were an equal or lesser culture. It can be simplified between the arguements of Father Antonio de Montesinos, Matias de Paz and Juan Lopez de Palacios Rubios. Obviously de Monesinos' point of view lost. It was a legal ruling years after Columbus. To blame Columbus, is like blaming Sir Franics Drake or John Smith for Wounded Knee. For those who kick Columbus, will they kick themselves and return their land to the Native Americans to right the wrong committed against them? I doubt it. - This liberal's perspective.
perfect example. that was a very opinion-driven perspective. Not the exactly the best way to teach history and let others come to their own conclusions though based on "all" events and actions taken by all parties, intentions and/or motivations (if known) and the consequences.
Well, I'm not renouncing my tribal lands. A tribe in Illinois tried to come after a farm my family owned. Now, my family was growing corn and beans, but the tribe was suing to take the farm so they could put a CASINO on it.
This reminds me of that Sopranos episode where some of Tony's crew came over to bust the heads of these picketers protesting Columbus Day "Hoooooooooooowww!, Columbus Day is a day of Italian Pride".
Don't mess with the Italian-American anti-defamation groups.
There is a middle ground somewhere here - the American Indian was not the noble child of nature that he is made out to be in contemporary thinking, neither is Columbus the Hitler of the 15th century (or the benevolent explorer that put a foot on America Neal Armstrong like and proclaimed a great day for mankind).
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
