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We just moved into a home and want to redo the master bath and kitchen. We were thinking of starting with the bath as that will be a smaller job and less complicated to figure out. We've never done major remodeling before and aren't sure how to begin. Do we call a general contractor? Or go to a specific kitchen/bath remodeling store? Do we start with a designer? We have some ideas of what we want but would be interested in seeing if they are possible or if there is something else we haven't thought of and how much it will cost. Where do we start??? TIA
As far as your kitchen goes, I would recommend not having anything ripped out until all of your new cabinets are on your property where you can measure, inspect and approve all of them. If you're changing the layout of your kitchen and you end up with changes in plumbing, electrical, lighting, and drywall you might not be able to wait to rip out all old cabinetry.
We just moved into a home and want to redo the master bath and kitchen. We were thinking of starting with the bath as that will be a smaller job and less complicated to figure out. We've never done major remodeling before and aren't sure how to begin. Do we call a general contractor? Or go to a specific kitchen/bath remodeling store? Do we start with a designer? We have some ideas of what we want but would be interested in seeing if they are possible or if there is something else we haven't thought of and how much it will cost. Where do we start??? TIA
You should start with the kitchen and put your money there. The decision to buy a home is decided by the woman of the house. The man has no say. And the woman will buy that house because of the kitchen so it is imperative you do it right. And for starters, to do it right you want to steer as clear from the big orange and the big blue because they only want your green.
You see, the big box stores do not employ Kitchen Designers, certified or not. Instead they give Cashiers and floor boys a 3 day training seminar on a CAD program. They are trained to put together a simple no frills kitchen for maximum profit and to hell with design. So since those cabinet salesmen do not know anything about design, the poor homeowner will never be introduced to many features and ideas and therefore will end up with just a basic very expensive kitchen. And pay top dollar for it.
Now...you also do not want to buy cabinets from those big box stores.. They charge full list price. You would not pay list price/sticker price/MSRP for your new car so why pay it for your cabinets? Instead search out small kitchen showrooms who #1 employ Kitchen Designers who are AKBD or CKD or best CMKBD which shows they are a master kitchen designer. #2 is you want to find a wholesale showroom who advertise the magic words: 35 to 50% off list price. Almost everyone is doing it today. In this economic depression everyone is discounting from list except the big box stores.
When you walk into a kitchen showroom you will see from 20 to 100 door samples hanging on the wall as well as a few full displays of cabinets all buddied together. The Designer will first ask your budget. If you say $995.00 he will probably send you to the store that sells Chinese cabinets which will give your family Asthma at best and cancer at worse because of the formaldehyde and sulfur they are laden with. You did not say what size your kitchen is but an average 10 x 10 L shaped room full of cabinets might range from $3000 to $7000 for quality MADE IN THE USA boxes. Granite add $1500.
Prices vary based on wood species, door style, box construction, optional finishes, trim options and that is just for starters. Oak is the least costly, then maple, then cherry being the most expensive just for an example. You want to stay away from white. It is very out of style but that dont mean people still dont buy it. Most all cabinet manufacturers have discontinued white, however many kept off white shades such as bisque, salmon or eggshell. In the past 10 years I only sold about 3 white kitchens out of over 6000 total.
Now comes the fun. The Kitchen Designer will come to your home, usually for free unlike the big box stores who charge $250 to do so. They will show you pictures of the newest and the latest and greatest features. They will scribble a general sketch with a pencil. Then if you like that they will draw your kitchen on a 3D program. You will get to look at your kitchen before you buy it. When you like the design, They give you the list price, then subtract the discount, you sign something, pay a down payment and wait for delivery. Nearly all cabinet manufacturers take from 1 week to 8 weeks but most take 3. The big box stores take 16 weeks despite what they tell you. And the order will, not maybe, will be wrong.
The kitchen showroom will coordinate the installers and any other trades that have to come in before the cabinets arrive. I am sure I missed some details but this should give you the drift of things.
I have done over 6000 of them in 28 years. It never stops being fun.
Since you have not done a remodeling project before I suggest interviewing a few GC's and pick their brains. If the GC is good, he/she will handle the whole design/construct team and go over several options with you to help you decide how best to tackle the renovations.
I've done kitchens and baths with general contractors and I've done 'em with kitchen/bath designers. If I had to do it again, I'd go with the kitchen/bath designer every time.
These people generally have more knowledge of the latest trends, best fixtures, most sensible layouts. I had a GREAT experience with my last kitchen designer and have recommended her many times.
I'd like to talk to you about a few options you might consider: Hire a kitchen design firm or act as your own general contractor hiring out those things you can't do yourself, or hiring a design firm for a consultation and new kitchen mock-up.
In our previous home, we hired a kitchen design firm for a complete kitchen tear-down and remodel. There were lots of problems (first general contractor was terrible). The design firm had never used him before but he was a friend of our "designer", but everything was made right. We chose a good company with honest owners.
I agree that a good firm will know about the latest products, the best suppliers, trends, etc and the whole process can be great....if, and this is a big if, they are a reputable and successful company. I would suggest that you ask friends and neighbors for recommendations for a reputable kitchen design firm. I would want to see first hand recent kitchen designs that the design firm had completed and speak with the owners of those homes about their opinion of the design firm. Our firm did this for us and we greatly appreciated this aspect of the process.
On the other hand, I have a good friend who decided to act as his own general contractor and hired a local cabinet maker who made the most gorgeous custom cabinets - an amazing job - and they were actually a little cheaper than the cabinets that our contractor ordered from several states away. The great thing about local artisans is that they can make anything any size....they are not bound by certain specifications like a lot of the big cabinet suppliers are.
Our friends also ordered the same flooring that we chose through our design firm - they ordered through the internet (ours came from a local flooring company who worked for our design firm...the flooring company purchased the flooring from the supplier .....so lots of middlemen to be paid). Our friends cut the middleman out and installed the flooring themselves (the husband is very handy around the house). They saved over 40% over what we paid for our flooring. Our friends used the same granite fabricator but dealt directly with the fabricator (in our case, the design firm arranged for our appointment to look at granite and they got a chunk of change from our granite purchase)...the design firm is the middle man and you pay for that. They do, however, facilitate the whole process - you give them a budget, and they present to you the choices within your budget - or at least that is how our design firm did it.
When we moved into our current house, the cabinets and flooring were great. We went to Best Buy and bought all our new appliances - I asked for a 10% discount and received it. I paid for installation and that whole process went perfectly. We went to different stone fabricators and chose our granite (a much more expensive granite grade than in our previous kitchen) and paid them to install (our new sink was included in the price)...we updated the cabinet hardware and installed undercounter lighting ourselves and hired a painter to do the painting. I ordered new hanging lighting and a wonderful faucet over the internet and hired people to install. Everyone assumes we had a complete kitchen remodel. Our total cost was just under $20,000 and could have been less, had we done more of the work ourselves.
Another thing is you can do is pay a consulting fee for a design firm to come out and give you some ideas on a kitchen remodel (they can even supply you with a computer generated mock-up) and then hire your own subcontractors. Do this only if you feel up to the task of acting as your own general contractor. You have to be willing to really do your homework, research, keep good records and stay on top of everything everyone yourself instead of paying and entrusting those tasks to a design firm.
I've done kitchens and baths with general contractors and I've done 'em with kitchen/bath designers. If I had to do it again, I'd go with the kitchen/bath designer every time.
These people generally have more knowledge of the latest trends, best fixtures, most sensible layouts. I had a GREAT experience with my last kitchen designer and have recommended her many times.
Right on!! I dont usually make a habit of REPing mods but you speak truth that I wish everyone would follow. You learned by experience and it sounds like you had a good experience. That's great!
Everyone must know: Architects are not Kitchen Designers. Those Sales Clerks in the big box stores are not Kitchen Designers. The contractor who is putting an addition on your home or remodeling your kitchen is not a Kitchen Designer. Your brother-in-law who installed his own kitchen is not a Kitchen Designer.
If you let just any Joe put your dream kitchen together then you are short changing yourself because you are not exposed to the latest and greatest design features available to you.
The best part? Kitchen Designers with any number of certifications from AKBA to CKD to CMKBD are free when you buy their cabinets. If you just hire the services of a Kitchen Designer, their fee is about 10% of the total kitchen job and they sit the whole job as Project Manager.
desertsun - I agree that you can't just hire anyone to do your kit chen remodel. However, you pay a lot more for a design firm than than I think you realize. Nothing is free - the designers build-in their fee with the cabinet price. I hired one of the top firms in So. California and there were still tons of problems - fixed in the end, but a headache none the less. A credential does not necessarily make for a good designer or a competent firm or even a pleasant experience.
Also, you are going to pay through the nose for a design firm to do all the work for you - I know that for a fact and from experience. I have given some good options in my post above. Not everyone has $50K or more to hire a kitchen designer (the average fee for a total kitchen remodel).
desertsun - I agree that you can't just hire anyone to do your kit chen remodel. However, you pay a lot more for a design firm than than I think you realize. Nothing is free - the designers build-in their fee with the cabinet price. I hired one of the top firms in So. California and there were still tons of problems - fixed in the end, but a headache none the less. A credential does not necessarily make for a good designer or a competent firm or even a pleasant experience.
Also, you are going to pay through the nose for a design firm to do all the work for you - I know that for a fact and from experience. I have given some good options in my post above. Not everyone has $50K or more to hire a kitchen designer (the average fee for a total kitchen remodel).
Not so fast. I'm not saying your wrong. Those big design/build firms you speak of you likely will pay through your nose and ears. You are paying a lot of middle men who do nothing but take a piece of every trade involved in the job. I mostly work alone or with my own team.
If you read my posts in the past I always add to buy from the right showroom and buy correctly. I been doing it for 28 years and have earned my CMKBD 3 times over. To my knowledge there are less then 10 of us in existance. I still do not charge for my services if you buy a kitchen from me. I almost never hear of anyone who does except Home Depot and Lowes and there you are not even paying for professional design. And I charge 50% off list price every day to every one. Does that sound like the consumer is getting raped? I nor my competitors are marking anything up. In fact most everyone except the big box stores discounts from list now.
Maybe Architects pull that crap on consumers but we dont. If an Architect is doing your major remodel and hires me but buys nothing from me, I charge 10% of the cost of the kitchen. That pays for me to draw it, provide the nomenclenture to the Architect and supervise the installation to make sure the installers do it to the drawing. If the kitchen is tiny and inexpensive I charge more but if an Architect is involved you can bet the whole job is very expensive. Poor people do not hire Architects.
It may be the only highly educated profession where we are not paid you might say. We are paid from the end product pretty much.
To be fair, some of the big box stores do employ interior designers. As in, an individual with a interior design degree. It just depends on the store.
Personally, I would recommend looking into an interior designer. You don't necessarily have to employ an individual with certification from the NKBA. In fact, most designers never even bother with those certifications. In and effort to provide full disclosure, Home Depot is affilated with the NKBA. It's a great trade association, but they're also promoting their agenda and trying to make money, so take it at face value.
Believe it or not, remodeling the bathroom is actually going to give you more bang for your buck in the present. A kitchen remodel, although profitable, is generally a more long term investment. Especially when it comes to what you're putting in the kitchen. I think spending a significant amount of time with a knowledgeable professional on the design of the kitchen is a must. I'd hate for you to spend 40K and have an instantly dated kitchen. This is all from a financial perspective.
From a personal perspective, I would probably do my kitchen because it's more important than my bathroom. I think you just need to decide which one is more important at this particular time.
And for the record, white is not out of style. Now, the kitchens with glazed cabinets, wood floors, and granite are really starting to becoming a dime a dozen. For clarification, I'm not saying dark cabinets are out of style, just some of those old fashioned glazes and finishes.
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