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I'm jumping the gun a little by starting this thread now. I'm still trying to buy a certain old house to fix up, but don't have it yet. But this might make for an interesting conversation anyway.
I know there is a difference between "restoration" and "renovation" of old houses. Restoration, implies that you are going to recreate exactly what was there originally, and renovation means that you're going to make the house livable by today's standards.
The house I'm trying to buy was built in 1902 and is mostly original, except for the kitchen and bathroom. They were "modernized" in the 50's or 60's. And, one of the 4 bedrooms was converted to a kitchen, to make the house a duplex.
One of my potential neighbors, who completely renovated his house, (it was on the city's demolition list, but is now very beautiful) claims that if I want to fix the house and "do it right" I have to gut the house down to the studs and put in all new systems, put in new windows, and drywall, etc. Others, like Coldjensens on this site, might claim that I should work hard to save as much of the original building that I can.
I don't want to go with either extreme. I will probably gut the kitchen and bathroom, and make them appear somewhat period correct, but with modern materials/fixtures. Save as much plaster as I can everywhere else, but rewire as necessary to have a safe electrical system. (a number of houses in the neighborhood have burned down over the years from hack electrical work) I want to save, and rebuild if necessary, the original windows.
I didn't mention plumbing, because everyone seems to be on the same page. Generally, rusty, old, galvanized pipe is bad and copper (or maybe PEX) is good. "My" house appears to have copper. But, some of it has been stripped out of the basement, so I might replace that with PEX.
So here is the reason I started this thread. What is your approach to fixing up an old house? What do you consider "right?" Is it purely about budget, historic preservation, adding modern conveniences, being green, a combination of these, or something else?
I like your approach. It matches what I try to do. I keep as much as possible of the original and update with period looking(as close as possible) fixtures. I did replace windows with high E windows except for the windows that could not be reproduced. Stained glass and or windows that were part of the architecture style are almost impossible to replace or duplicate. Those windows I do rebuild.
I think the biggest key, even with a big budget, is patience and detail.
Good luck getting it.
If you want to make this a long term "house to die in" vs medium range home for yourself / family vs "investment / potential resale" each might have different paths.
Of course the starting point should start with a solid assessment of your starting point. The house itself is big part of that assessment, but also the neighborhood and personal commitment factor into the evaluation as well.
If you do have a longer time horizon the payback for investment like gutting down to studs and weatherizing / all new electric / plumbing / hvac all can be worth it.
If you believe that the home is going to be attractive buyers in short / near term without those expenditures than the incremental boast in value, if any, needs to weighed the additional time and expense. GENERALLY this what separates 'money making' flips from losing efforts!
"Saving" interior elements from relatively recently vintage (in many parts of the country / world a home built in 1902 is still very 'young' ) homes is silly. Unless there are some unique finishes features the trouble of patching old plaster is not worth the effort. Sure, save interior trim / fixtures if they can be reused.
From a personal standpoint I have lived in and sold older homes. Bang for the buck and everyday "owner feel good" comes mostly from AESTHETIC decisions. Don't go totally "sweep it under the rug" with older mechanical system, but do not plan on getting your money back from those kinds of expenditures...
To decide where to fall on the renovation vs restoration scale I would ask myself a couple of important questions before lifting a hammer:
1. How "historical" is my house?
2. How much money is there to spend?
3. What do I want?
4. What might the next owner want?
Is it a "special" architectural style? Is is rare, exceptionally well constructed, artistic, the former residence of an important person or not? If so, restoration is the moral way to go. Money to spend is obviously important, but it isn't usually worth it to do a complete gut and rebuild inside even from a purely economic standpoint.
Beyond economics, it is tragic to see so many yahoos gut, sheetrock and equip a house with off the shelf Home Depot crap. It's like taking a classic car, gutting it and putting in plastic modern parts off a current model chevy or toyota. You end up with a ticky-tacky, inferior product made of inferior materials that isn't coherent or special anymore. Back in the day, people really cared about asthetics, continuity and the pleasant feelings generated by a well-designed home. Today, not so much...
...which is why you MUST consider the future of the house. Modern homes are engineered to fall apart and most won't last a hundred years. But before "planned obsolescence" a house was ususally built with the intent that it (with good maintenance) would stand virtually forever. Someday, someone will curse the people who took a good thing and essentially ruined it by consumerizing the place to 20 and 21st century tastes. Just look how fast styles become obsolete and look horrible... that is by design to maximize profits. Please don't play that game.
Still, I would not hesitate to make quality, complimentary improvments and express my own personal tastes (provided they are in good taste). Otherwise, get a new house to ruin, because nobody will care about them down the road.
So here is the reason I started this thread. What is your approach to fixing up an old house? What do you consider "right?" Is it purely about budget, historic preservation, adding modern conveniences, being green, a combination of these, or something else?
We are preservationists at heart, but, alas, don't want to live in a "museum". Houses, I believe, grown and change and evolve just like their human caretakers.
Live in your house, as it is, for at least a year. Save all of the $$$ you can. Take a deep breath.
Let the house speak to you. Yeah, it sounds cheesy and all metaphysical and all...but trust, me, it will happen.
When you tear into your first big project....expect blood, sweat and tears. And money. Buckets and buckets of money. If you've ever pondered the idea of gambling on the lottery, now would be a good time.
Expect the unexpected and be willing to make changes and adaptations on the fly.
If you get in over your head, hire an expert. Sooner, rather than later.
If you are unsure, hire an architect. One who specializes in old houses. Use the AIA website and demand to see examples of work. Better to spend money on good design at the beginning.
If you have something original to the house (bathrooms for instance) focus on preserving those. If the kitchen has been "remuddled" over the years, it's neither necessary nor desirable to replicate the original (unless you reallly realllly want to....). Most people are happy with something that fits the general "feel" of the era, with the modern conveniences.
Original exterior features take precedence in my book. Also, keep all original doors, windows, hardware, and woodwork. If you feel the need to "update" anything, carefully store the originals in the basement/attic with labels and dates. Future owners may thank you.
I have an 80-yr old Arts & Crafts. We bought it in great condition and for the renovations we plan, I am sticking as close as possible to the original style. For example, we have private rooms (i.e.,private dining room, kitchen, parlor, etc.) separated by french doors or pocket doors. We've had people come in and talk about "knocking down a wall" or the "open concept" design. No way. I bought the house because I prefer private rooms vs open concept.
I need to re-do one bathroom floor and add another bathroom in the future. The tiles will be historic reproduction. We also have wood-framed windows, some with lead glass. A previous owner installed storm windows but only on some windows and I think I'll go that route for the rest of the windows vs new windows (for energy efficiency).
We have glass doorknobs with the silver inside and one that looks like amethyst. Any doorknobs added/replaced will be glass but I'll go to salvage shops, flea markets, antique stores, or resources on the internet, not the big box stores.
A previous owner covered the front porch in this awful outdoor carpet and I need to restore it back to the wood (I saw wood underneath). I haven't peeled it up yet; that's a Spring project.
Thanks for the replies everyone! Your posts were pretty much what I was looking for. I am a design professional, (can't call myself an architect because I'm not registered, but for all intents and purposes...) so I have a pretty good idea of what I want to do. But I'm interested in others' opinions on how they would fix an old house.
The house I'm trying to get isn't that historic, but it is in a historic district. This house, and its neighbor were built for 2 spinster sisters. It's one of only a few houses facing the park that is a manageable size. Most of the other houses around the park were originally mansions that have been converted to multifamily apartments.
Since there isn't much in the bathrooms and kitchen that is salvageable. (except the claw-foot tub) I'll start over. In the kitchen, I would get rid of the worn out steel cabinets, (not Youngstown cabinets) and go for average quality, mission style cabinets, maybe with soapstone counter-tops. In the bathroom, I would create a 4-5 foot bead board wainscot, (unless there was evidence that the walls were originally tiled) tile the floor with 1" hex tiles, and find a nice pedestal sink. Throughout the rest of the house, I'd make as few changes as possible.
I forgot to add that I do not plan to stay in the house forever. But, I never thought I'd stay in Youngstown for these last 10 years, either. I find it interesting that some recommend less demolition if I'm not staying long term, or have investment in mind. I prefer the slightly less perfect plaster, so want to save as much as possible.
The house I'm trying to get isn't that historic, but it is in a historic district. .
If it is located in a recognized historic district then there is a good chance you will need to seek permits/approval for ANY exterior changed. (Shingle type, paint color, ect.) This can be a curse and a blessing. If there is a board you have to report to, best to start out and stay on their good side.
One last thing. I find it interesting that when people talk about restoring a house they automatically think of the time period it was built in. Nothing wrong with that what so ever (and for many houses that is probably the best thing). As someone else said, in the lifespan of a house it goes though many phases. So theoretically then, do I have to restore my 1939 house to the style of that year or is it still acceptable to go for a more 1950's mid-century modern feel? Not looking for answers, just a thought.
So here is the reason I started this thread. What is your approach to fixing up an old house? What do you consider "right?" Is it purely about budget, historic preservation, adding modern conveniences, being green, a combination of these, or something else?
I think its a combination of everything you said, except being green; a subject for which i have no interest in. Saving money is something I have an interest in, which is why i would recommend you gut it so it can be properly insulated, and replace the windows.
I would say preserve anything that is of historical significance and cannot be replicated.
But as an infrastructure person, i like to gut as much as possible and completely upgrade the systems if it fits within the budget.
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What is your goal / desired end point?
