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so, as a result of the energy audit, i may be considering a tankless hot water heater. what do people think of them? how about any issues with hard water? NJ has a lot of mineral buildup, would it cause issues with the system?
I figured out the life expectancy of a tankless system, a energy efficent tank unit and a standard tank unit. Next i figured out the energy use over that life expectancy. Last i figured out the initial cost and installation, minus any rebates. In the end, the tankless unit was not as cost effective as the super energy efficient tank unit.
Tankless do not seem to pencil out as a net savings. They are really more of a luxury option for people who do not want to run out of hot water ever.
We originally went tankless for space savings. WE were able to mount the tankless W/H to the outside back wall of our house and put a dishwasher in where the tanked W/H used to be. When we moved, we had plenty of room int he basement of a large tank W/H but went with tankless because it is so much nicer.
honestly i cant tell you about the models available here in the us, BUT i can tell you in the uk its all tankless and its wonderfull, assuming your model is the right size for your home you never run out of hot water, the energy bill (natural gas) for its use is tiny and your not storing a metal vat filled with hot water in your home...but its also very common technology over there with alot more history behind it and the systems may be much more efficient for it...and units seem to have a much longer lifespan in the UK too...
here in the us its still relitivly new tech and the cost of instalation of the system alone can be quite cost prohibitive.
i do feel though that in the long run the gas models are well worth the upgrade if you can get a model that will last and it installed for a competitive price.
im not sure id bother though if your running electric, i think one of the super energy efficient tanks might be better for an electric run system...
and then mabe add a point of use tankless by your tub/shower if its a case of not enough hot water.
I figured out the life expectancy of a tankless system, a energy efficent tank unit and a standard tank unit. Next i figured out the energy use over that life expectancy. Last i figured out the initial cost and installation, minus any rebates. In the end, the tankless unit was not as cost effective as the super energy efficient tank unit.
care to share your breakdowns?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
Yes. You will need a water softener.
Tankless do not seem to pencil out as a net savings. They are really more of a luxury option for people who do not want to run out of hot water ever.
We originally went tankless for space savings. WE were able to mount the tankless W/H to the outside back wall of our house and put a dishwasher in where the tanked W/H used to be. When we moved, we had plenty of room int he basement of a large tank W/H but went with tankless because it is so much nicer.
thanks. that's something to consider then, but i wanted one anyways. i'm not sure about the net savings over the life of it. i think the unit is $2,800 installed, and it nets me an extra $1,000 in tax credit on the total work being done. also, i think it's rated as 95% efficient, and i'd be getting it with a 0% loan through the state. hard to pass up. but if i need a softener, i have more to consider...
Hi there, I thought I might chime in on this one.....
I'm a licensed plumber and a Rinnai certified installer...
My thoughts on tankless water heaters are that they perform very well and, with proper maintenence, can last much longer than a conventional tank style unit. They are more effecient over the very long term, but there are a few drawbacks, particularly in a retrofit application.
The biggest added expenses involved are upsizing a home's gas lines and moving water lines. A tankless water heater's gas requirement is typically between 150,000 and 198,000 BTU as where a tank style only takes somewhere in the neighborhood of 35,000 to 40,000 BTU. What this means to the homeowner is that frequently a larger gas line must be run. As for moving water lines, it will depend on where the tankless is to be installed. If a home has it's existing water heater in a location against an exterior wall, this is seldom much of an issue, but if a water heater is in a basement utility room for example, there can be considerable work involved in moving water and gas lines to a suitable location. Also, in some installations, where mounting the new tankless unit against an exterior wall is not practical, running a new flue to duct the exhaust gasses to the outside can be an additional expense.
Finally, there is the issue of maintenence. Most makes require yearly maintenence by a certified installer as a condition of the warranty. What this involves is temporarily disconnecting the heater and pumping a concentrated solution (similar to strong vinegar) through the unit to remove mineral deposits. This maintenence is critical since the internal passages in a tankless are so small. They can start to clog quickly and the efficiency and performance of the unit will quickly deteriorate.
So, my opinion on tankless water heaters is that while they do have a lot going for them in terms of efficiency and performance, they are not always the best choice for every homeowner. For installation in new construction or substantial remodel applications, they're great, but in a retrofit, often the additional costs involved are greater than the increase in efficency.
I don't know the specifics of your situation, but I would advise you to consult with a qualified, licensed plumber in your area who will help you determine what is best for your needs.
Hi there, I thought I might chime in on this one.....
I'm a licensed plumber and a Rinnai certified installer...
Finally, there is the issue of maintenence. Most makes require yearly maintenence by a certified installer as a condition of the warranty. What this involves is temporarily disconnecting the heater and pumping a concentrated solution (similar to strong vinegar) through the unit to remove mineral deposits. This maintenence is critical since the internal passages in a tankless are so small. They can start to clog quickly and the efficiency and performance of the unit will quickly deteriorate...
What would you say is the average cost for this yearly maintenance?
What would you say is the average cost for this yearly maintenance?
When I was still in southern Colorado, the cost was usually around $100. That was figuring a one hour service call at $75 and the cost of the cleaning solution, about $20-$25 dollars.
You might call around to get an exact price in your area, but this is probably in the ball park.
thanks GreenScout! one question about the yearly maintenance...any reason why one can't DIY?
i think my installation would be simple. but i'll ask a few other local plumbers their opinions of it before going through with it. my scenario is interesting, because i'm looking into doing insulation, air sealing, and a few other energy efficient upgrades as a result of a NJ program. if you get >20% energy savings, you get a 10 year, 0% $10,000 loan, and a $3,000 credit on the work. If you get >25%, you get the same, except a $4,000 credit. the tankless solution is really just to get me above that 20% threshold combined with the insulation, air sealing, and replacing my steam furnace (radiator heat) - to take full advantage of the state program right now.
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