Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperL
While you might think it wasteful, they would call it being safe with the citizens life. Considering some of the wiring jobs I've seen on these older homes, it makes you wonder why some of them haven't burnt down already. And there's no excuse for not requiring knob and tube to be replaced, that stuff is just dangerous.
But a home owner has the option of not having any work done and keeping what they have. But should they have a fire, any kind of fire, and the Fire Marshall finds a fuse box or a 2 wire system, they pull the meter until the house is brought up to current code. FWIW, our electric provider which is owned by the City, has programs for the folks that don't have the cash to pay for the up grades. They also have programs for those with the cast iron piping as long as the home owner agrees to install low flow commodes. The city water service will also provide those at no cost. It's not near as gestapo as it sounds and the H/O is much better off with the up grades.
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They pull the meter if there is any kind of a fire? so if somone falls asleep while smoking in bed and starts a fire, they end up having to replace their electrical system or lose their home if they cannot afford a new electrical system? I suppose they could just live without electricity or get a generator. That is just crazy.
All said and done a complete re-wire, new box and repair all the damage can easily cost $10 - 15K or more. The biggest cost is often restoring the walls and cielings, especially if they electrician is not a thinker.
It is a good way to force lower income homeowners to default and abandon their home and become renters, maybe the government sees a benefit to that.
What is just plain dangerous about a knob and tube electrical system? Unless the wire has become brittle, it is just as safe as a romex non-grounded system. The wire usually does not become brittle unless there is a bad connection. The really old bare wire K & T systems can be dangerous if you send an idiot into the attic. Even then, it takes some doing to cause a problem. The wire runs are usually pretty far apart. Bare K & T is extremely rare. It was rarely done, and almost none of it still exists.
There is no reason to replace K & T wireing unless it needs replacing for some reason like re-routing or there is a connection problem, or you are expanding the number of devices or circuits. It is difficult to tie new romex into t K & T system correctly, so sometimes, if you are adding things, you end up replacing the old wiring, but not always. Also it is not terribly difficult to add a groun to a K & T two wire system, especially if you are allowed to ground to plumbing (assuming there is copper plumbing). Replacing it just because it is there is like throwing your car away because it is dirty.
A two wire system is extremely common. In many areas most houses have a two wire system. Where I am right now, a tleast 90% of the houses in the neighborhood have 2 wire systems. They have all been here for around 100 years or more. None of them have burned down due to wiring problems.
A grounded system adds safety only in a few situations. FOr most uses, it does nothing. In all houses, new or old, virtually all light fixtures are two wire. For outlets, a ground does no good inless what you are plugging in is also grounded. Most household electronic devices and appliances are two wire. For example, right now I have a ceramic disk heater, a computer charger, A phone charger and a wall mounted light in use. None of them are grounded, so a three wire system would not help me one whit.
GFCIs work the same on a two or three wire system. They simply are not grounded just like any other kind of outlet on the system, but they still function the same.
back to the topic of the orignal post - sewer lines, I am surprised the PVC performs any better than cast in moving soil conditions. PVC isnot very flexible. Really odd they use PVC instead of ABS. ABS is more common for waste lines and much more flexible. With cast their is some flex at the connections. With PVC there is none. They are glued and movement will open the joints. It is also funny they call low flow toilets an "upgrade" Those things are certinaly not beneficial for homeowners. THat is why non-low flow toilets are smuggled in from Canada in large numbers. Except for the really expensive newer low flows, most require two flushes, so they save no water, the plug up more. The new ones are much better, even better than the old toilets or Canadian ones, but they are pricy. UNtil recently, low flow toilets were uniformly junk. Now, it you have a lot of money, you can get good ones.
It seems your community is set up to drive poor home owners out of their homes. The government wants only well to do homeowners and everyone else renting. There is probably a reason for that.
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