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Surprisingly the price to up-size a unit is not that much all things considered. Also two major installers in DFW offer a 10 year parts, labor, repair, maintenance and filters in one price for the unit. I agree complex means more things to go wrong like the communication system as well as the more variable speed blower and compressor. Im 72 and recently started looking at condos to get rid of the hassles of repairs etc as we age. The option of paying a fixed amount to get 10 years worth of complete coverage is appealing to me but I nee to see the price and to compare to another option to know for sure.
The price different between a 3 ton and a 4 ton variable stage compressor and a variable speed blower is less than 5%. I am digging up the records of what I spend on hvac annual check ups and repairs. One of my units has a slow Freon leak requiring a lb each spring so the economics are pretty good to replace this in total. This 3 ton system runs on ac around 90% of a summer day in DFW. This 21 year old unit will achieve a set point down to 72 easily I have not tried it at a lower set point. but was wondering if a 3.5 ton might make sense there but the choices in a variable unit are 3 or 4 or 5 etc no half tons made in that version.
Heating size here in DFW is not an issue. my 3.5 ton unit us upstairs above an open foyer and a 12 foot ceiling FR/KIT combo so in the winter its heater rarely turns on. It is heated by the rising hot air from the main d/s unit. We get mild winters often with pretty rare freezing days but then we can be hit by a Super Bowl weekend where the temps are below freezing a few days and nights. But even then my existing furnaces had no issue keening us warm. I learned today that my 3 ton ac is matched to a 2.5 ton compatible furnace and air handler and it keeps us toasty without issue now.
I am open to spending the extra for a 4 ton unit if it wont cause humidity issues. With all the bells and whistles on these variable speed units and the communications side, keeping them running is the issue so outsourcing that at a fixed cost up front appeals to me but seems unnecessary too.
Same thing a competitor said until they read the proposal.
It is clear they are buying the extra years from Lennox for labor at a cost to them of $1200. Its 10 years on compressor, 10 years on evaporator coil, 20 years on heat exchanger and 10 years on all manufactured parts. (I am not happy with no specific mention of the communication system and thermostat as explicitly listed as covered.)
Extended maintenance agreement is provided by my installer. It covers 2 checkups a year, filer replacements, and repairs needed if any to achieve the guaranteed performance level. All this is included in the price with no additional cost to me.
They will dispatch a technician when I call, I pay a diagnostic fee of $90 each time they are called out.
I can either pay a monthly amount or the cash price after 6 months with no interest and no payment due. I plan to pay it rather than pay their embedded interest rate to me thought having their maintenance fee paid up front in this economic situation might not be wise for me to do.
The second similar proposal I am getting is from a installer who has been in business since 1910. They have a similar concept but different model. I will see their specific proposal Wednesday next week. They did ask to see my other proposal to see if they can match it if their model offers do not sway me. The model of this installer is like the pay over time deal of the first proposal but I can buy the system for a cash price at any point in time of my choosing. I look forward to seeing the specifics of who this works and how they depreciate or pay down the cost of the system. But the idea of paying for the system and paying for the warranty cost over time has a nice sound to it.
Seems like the economy is hitting these guys hard and they are taking extraordinary steps to keep business flowing. So looking for the holes in the deal is a must. Thanks for your question on the parts and labor,
Upsizing is actually bad. It can cause short cycling of the unit. As other poster mentioned you will almost never make your $$ back due to the increased costs and potential upkeep. My home is new and spray foamed I have a 1.5 and 2 ton units.l for 1479 and 1600 sqft and furnaces are 45 and 50k btu. They are properly sized and my bills are dirt. We had a manual j done it factors in isolation sun etc. I keep my house at 70 all day I have some of the highest electric rates in the country and my bill was $108 last month.
Upsizing is actually bad. It can cause short cycling of the unit. As other poster mentioned you will almost never make your $$ back due to the increased costs and potential upkeep. My home is new and spray foamed I have a 1.5 and 2 ton units.l for 1479 and 1600 sqft and furnaces are 45 and 50k btu. They are properly sized and my bills are dirt. We had a manual j done it factors in isolation sun etc. I keep my house at 70 all day I have some of the highest electric rates in the country and my bill was $108 last month.
variable speed compressors do not short cycle .
the capacity is adjusted to match . in fact the thermostats are variable too , not just off and on .
the capacity is adjusted to match . in fact the thermostats are variable too , not just off and on .
They might short cycle if the OP decides to get a unit oversized for his house. I moved into a condo with an oversized unit. It would get freezing upstairs. When I replaced it with a right-sized variable (the old one was 28 years old), my bills went way down.
They might short cycle if the OP decides to get a unit oversized for his house. I moved into a condo with an oversized unit. It would get freezing upstairs. When I replaced it with a right-sized variable (the old one was 28 years old), my bills went way down.
a variable unit will never freeze ...
in fact even a conventional unit slightly over sized should never freeze . if it does it is a sign the unit is a bit low on refrigerant ..
evap pressure is such that the coil will stay above 40 degrees in a normal conventional unit with balanced air flow to match .
an oversize unit only triggers a conventional unit to stop sooner and it does not remove enough moisture from the air . freezing should not be a factor .
Last edited by mathjak107; 07-25-2020 at 05:19 AM..
One additional element of the proposal is a performance guarantee. They claim the design conditions for DFW where my home is, are for HVAC to heat or cool home to a set point of 72 degrees when the outdoor temperature is between 32 and 90. My current systems do this easily. Winter is really no challenge to achieve but summers are in my view. This past three weeks we run from a day time high of 95 to 100 with night time lows of around 80. My current combination of three systems easily achieves a 75 indoor temperature with these conditions.
I do not see a need to up-size given my combination of a 5 year old two stage 5 ton and two 21 year old 3 and 3.5 tons can cool in this condition. Is this logical?
I know the new units are significantly more energy efficient in fact estimators tell me I should see a halving of my electric consumption on the two new units under discussion, but the question is will 2020 models with a SEER of 20 vs the old 10 SEER units cool as much or more than the old units? IF they can then there is no reason for me to up-size. I can see how the variable speed ac can save a lot of energy running at 30% vs 100% but is it best for the new systems to run basically all the time vs say 80 or 90% on mode my units operate now.
I can see how avoiding the constant on/off for a one stage system saves wear and tear on a unit but have heard they are best if running pretty well constantly at times such as my current ones nearly do. I assume the new ones will run more of the time just at a much lower capacity of say 30 to 50% of full capacity. Having sufficient reserve capacity appeals to me for situations where we have a house full of people and the ac load is much higher to keep it cool or we get a fast drop in temperatures in winter or sharp rise in summer too as we can see here. there situations are the exception not the rule I must admit.
The only drawback is that many/most true variable speed systems need their own controllers and are not compatible with the standard wifi thermostats. Even the high-end wifi thermostats can only do 3 speeds- you really have to use the controller designed for your system to get all the features.
Actually I haven’t seen one that doesn’t require a new communicating thermostat. All the smarts are built into the HVAC unit itself and digitally communicates with the other components.
One additional element of the proposal is a performance guarantee. They claim the design conditions for DFW where my home is, are for HVAC to heat or cool home to a set point of 72 degrees when the outdoor temperature is between 32 and 90. My current systems do this easily. Winter is really no challenge to achieve but summers are in my view. This past three weeks we run from a day time high of 95 to 100 with night time lows of around 80. My current combination of three systems easily achieves a 75 indoor temperature with these conditions.
Pointless to guarantee a high of 90 when your summers get 95-100. But if you’re happy with 75 you shouldn’t have a problem.
Quote:
I know the new units are significantly more energy efficient in fact estimators tell me I should see a halving of my electric consumption on the two new units under discussion, but the question is will 2020 models with a SEER of 20 vs the old 10 SEER units cool as much or more than the old units? IF they can then there is no reason for me to up-size. I can see how the variable speed ac can save a lot of energy running at 30% vs 100% but is it best for the new systems to run basically all the time vs say 80 or 90% on mode my units operate now.
I guarantee if your temperatures are 95-100 out that even a variable system will be running at 100% at that time of the day if it’s running now.
Where you will benefit is more comfort, better humidity removal, more even temperatures. None of which translates to the ability to hit a certain temperature inside. Any unit sized correctly will do this.
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