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Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 38,782,175 times
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Hi guys.
Here's my boggle:
I re-tiled a 1/2 bath as one of the first projects in my current home. I'm ready to start on one of the full baths. The floor tiles are almost certainly set over a 60 year old mortar bed and chipping them up will not be much fun.
I would really prefer to have the finished bathroom floor even with the hallway floor, so I'm considering taking up the tiles and the mortar bed and then building a subfloor and laying backer-board before placing the new tiles (I can get it dead even that way), but I would also prefer not to kill myself breaking up a 60 year old mortar bed. I'm also thinking about replacing the bathtub, so tearing out the mortar bed may be necessary anyway.
I would like to get some opinions on the proper course here...
If I wind up simply tiling over the old tiles, what is the procedure for prepping the old stuff? Pro's and cons? Gimme all ya' got...
I just love to talk about things that I've never done, though I do have an interest because I'm considering doing it.
First off, your tile is on a mortar bed which is the best base, most stable, that you could possibly have, so it's possible to tile over and and have it work.
The toilet is a consideration. If the tile isn't too thick, you should be able to just drop on a new wax ring and get a couple of toilet mount bolts and everything will be fine. On the other hand, I read a rehab blog a couple of years ago about some poor guy who discovered that he had some sort of nonstandard waste pipe in his older house. Because he tiled over, he needed a transitional piece, an extension, which was quite difficult to find. He found it, it took a while, but if he hadn't it could have meant a hefty plumbing bill.
Is there a vanity, sink cabinet? Is there tile under it? If not, you'll have to fill in that area and be pretty careful about it.
What about the transition into, I presume, the hall. You can add or raise the threshold, but will the floor be too high? You might have to trim the door.
I think that you'll have to grind off the slick surface of the existing tile. Vac up the dust, wipe up the floor, I'd vac it again, and let it dry thoroughly.
I haven't read this anywhere, but my brain is telling me that you should put down a different size tile. If you have 4" now, put down mosaics or 6" plus, but not the same size. You don't want grout line over grout line.
Tiling over existing tile is like playing the lottery. You are taking the chance that NONE of the existing tiles are loose, and that they are very secure on the mortar bed.
The floor level will be anywhere from 1/4" to 1/2" higher than it was, and might pose a problem at the transition.
Get out the sledge hammer, bust out the old stuff, and install it all new. You will be happier in the long run. You can make the transition look like it was original, and you will not have to worry about anything working loose underneath.
It's always easier to do it right the first time, than to have to do it twice.
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 38,782,175 times
Reputation: 7185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barking Spider
It's always easier to do it right the first time, than to have to do it twice.
I can't argue with that, Spider...
Is there a problem with constructing the subfloor out of plywood (using construction adhesive to connect it to the foundation), covering it with 4 or 6 mil, then fastening the backerboard, then tiling over it? I'm worried about a plywood subfloor getting wet at some point in the future and swelling.
One of those pneumatic tile-hammer-jack things will make short work of it. Don't know the name, but it is like a jackhammer but it has a flat "blade" to fir right under the tiles.
Is there a problem with constructing the subfloor out of plywood (using construction adhesive to connect it to the foundation), covering it with 4 or 6 mil, then fastening the backerboard, then tiling over it? I'm worried about a plywood subfloor getting wet at some point in the future and swelling.
What type of subfloor do you currently have? Is it a concrete slab or a wood subfloor? The first thing I would do is ask the experts at JohnBridge.com to see what they think. They'll definitely ask you questions about you subfloor to make sure it will support the tile. Be aware that stone and ceramic tile require different levels of stiffness.
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 38,782,175 times
Reputation: 7185
Quote:
Originally Posted by akck
What type of subfloor do you currently have? Is it a concrete slab or a wood subfloor? The first thing I would do is ask the experts at JohnBridge.com to see what they think. They'll definitely ask you questions about you subfloor to make sure it will support the tile. Be aware that stone and ceramic tile require different levels of stiffness.
Right now the bathroom has some very old 4" ceramic tiles (interesting color selection as well) over a very old mortar bed built up directly on the slab so tile weight is unlikely to be a concern. It appears that the mortar bed covers a portion of the outer lip of the cast iron tub, which I want to remove when I do the bathroom rehab. (Settle down out there people, it's nothing special. Just cast iron with a mint green porcelain coat)
I'm considering either custom fitting 3/4" plywood into the recess in the foundation (it was apparently poured to accomodate a mortar bed in the bathrooms) or possibly filling the recess with concrete, scoring it and laying the tile directly on the concrete. The trouble with that is the relative permanence if I want to make changes at a later date.
I'm a tad iffy about the plywood because I don't really know what needs to be done as far as waterproofing is concerned and have seen some bad results from subs using inexperienced day-labor.
YOu can rent a tile stripper from Home Depot. The secret is to position the blade in the center of the tile edge not under the tile. The vibration will usually pop the tile up along with all the thinset. You can then take a sander or hammer/chisel to the remaining thinset.
/removed 1800 sq ft of tile this way
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