Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Well, I'm going to pursue House #1. I might be able to work out a deal with the current owners. They replace the roof and I buy it from them under some sort of land contract. If that doesn't work out, then I'll just have to wait, save money, and try again in the future.
Cosmic, I'm not sure what you're getting at. What do you mean by: "Too much focus on style, image, pretty, status?" In this economy, in this neighborhood, this much work has to be a labor of love - a hobby. If I were looking at this as an investment, I wouldn't even be thinking about it. In the long run, I think there is a remote possibility of some monetary gains, but that will only be a pleasant surprise, and I'm not counting on it.
I vote #1 - but, eyikes - what a lot of work. I bought a 1929 English tutor that was almost that bad and when I left it was gorgeous. That took 10 years and mucho denaro.
Well, I'm going to pursue House #1. I might be able to work out a deal with the current owners. They replace the roof and I buy it from them under some sort of land contract. If that doesn't work out, then I'll just have to wait, save money, and try again in the future.
Cosmic, I'm not sure what you're getting at. What do you mean by: "Too much focus on style, image, pretty, status?" In this economy, in this neighborhood, this much work has to be a labor of love - a hobby. If I were looking at this as an investment, I wouldn't even be thinking about it. In the long run, I think there is a remote possibility of some monetary gains, but that will only be a pleasant surprise, and I'm not counting on it.
Just keep us posted as to what you are doing; quite a few people are following this thread
I know they don't tell the whole story, but we were rushing through.
I don't think either house would qualify as a craftsman. I agree that the first house is most like a dutch colonial.
As far as the roof costs go, I think my coworker is also figuring in some replacement sheathing and, possibly, structural repairs. (are any of the rafters rotten?)
-------------------
I'm beginning to think that, if I'm going to dedicate such a large portion of my life to a renovation like this, I should wait and find the "perfect" house for me. While I really like these houses, maybe I should wait to find a house that I'm in love with? (nice solid brick American Foursquare with lots of oak woodwork and a fireplace, for example) But, Thomas Edison had a saying: "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." If I wait, will I regret missing this opportunity?
house #1 would be considered Dutch Colonial, and #2 is a craftsman home, not the pure style like the originals such as Greene and Greene, but it is none the less Craftsman (think Sears and Roebuck or Gordon VanTine of the 20's and 30's)
ahh, the gamble house
Here is one of the Sears and Roebuck craftsman homes, looks quite similar.
I love Craftsman houses. They have so much personality.
However, I like house #1 the best. It seems to be so much more open and I love the original wood floors. There is also a double garage.
The placement of house 2 is too close to the buildings on both sides of it. I would think I was living in a fish bowl. No thanks. It completely erodes any ambiance that the house may have.
That is just my opinion. The houses might very well have a totally different feel to them than I get from pics....but I did enjoy the pics.
I love Craftsman houses. They have so much personality.
However, I like house #1 the best. It seems to be so much more open and I love the original wood floors. There is also a double garage.
The placement of house 2 is too close to the buildings on both sides of it. I would think I was living in a fish bowl. No thanks. It completely erodes any ambiance that the house may have.
That is just my opinion. The houses might very well have a totally different feel to them than I get from pics....but I did enjoy the pics.
I swear that house #1 won by a #$%%^& landslide in the 'popularity contest' here on this thread
I swear that house #1 won by a #$%%^& landslide in the 'popularity contest' here on this thread
No kidding! Originally, after seeing these two, (and a third that I ruled out right away) I was leaning toward #2. It seemed to be in better shape. (and it is more intact) But as I thought about it, both houses need essentially the same work done. When I posted this thread, I was starting to lean toward #1, but was still undecided.
Thanks for the replies everyone. If it works out, I'll be sure post updates.
Cosmic, I'm not sure what you're getting at. What do you mean by: "Too much focus on style, image, pretty, status?" In this economy, in this neighborhood, this much work has to be a labor of love - a hobby. If I were looking at this as an investment, I wouldn't even be thinking about it. In the long run, I think there is a remote possibility of some monetary gains, but that will only be a pleasant surprise, and I'm not counting on it.
When I am talking image, pretty and status that type of thinking can be quite dangerous from a number of angles. In fact, I am very conscious of the type mentality that is used in rehab projects for a reason. If your main goal, focus and interest is in making something look pretty, it never seems to get done right. I never wanted peeps around that thought like that, just about all customers did. The standard joke being they would pay to make it pretty, never to make it right. In a way, many times you wound up trying to save them from themselves. they wanted to talk about only the stuff that would give them image, status or the final appearance of the house. You see that focus on many of the comments in this thread.
Probably the most common mistake in redoing any house. The bones are not made right, the utilities are not made right, the energy envelope around the house is not made right. None of it very exciting, mostly dog type work but without it the projects come out being sorts of disasters. The houses are never energy efficient, never safe, never comfortable, never trouble free.
I'm the one sort of puzzled by the idea of a "Hobby". Those type projects have so many ways to slap you up side the head. There is one other thing that happens, a type of "Depression" can set in. You can wind up not having much of a real life in any other form if you are the only worker. If you have a normal day job, how many hours can you actually put in a week? How do you ever move the job thru many of the critical points that have to happen usually in some type of quicker succession in the begining?
Usually you need reliable safe power, need heat, need water. With only one guy and a bunch of things that all have to happen you can be like a one legged man in an backside kicking contest. Everything demands your attention at once. How do you do it as a hobby???
Just looking at those boilers makes me wonder how long it would take to get them back up and running? What the typical bill might be if they could be gotten back on line? I couldn't tell if they were forced hot water or steam. Saw no pumps, nothing that looked like sight glasses but I can bet the standby losses on those puppies are way out of sight. Probably at least half or more of the heat goes up that chimney. Those headers on that one looks like a lite industrial setup. So if you can't convert them quickly right up front, you pay the bills, or get no heat. In winter is it going to seem much like a hobby? I doubt it. I know one girl that has a bit of a boiler like that smaller one in an old Victorian done poorly and her heat alone can be as much at $1600 a month in winter. Kind of a story but they do happen.
The other way to view it, take any TV program where they rehab a house like that. Count all the body(s), make a note of their actual working days, convert those total manhours into a one man operation. MN2CO is right, ten years and beyond is possible. Most folks never can endure it that long. I know one guy, just him and his wife building a new house, they are on their third year, maybe move in before Xmas, but both are getting to that stage where they are becoming a type of basket case. At some point you just want it to end. Takes a lot of discipline to stay the course and do it right. That "Depression" thing can get to be very real, even if you are well experienced and done it many times before.
Consider to do a house like that as a paying job, I would normally want a very large crew, something around 15 if you can get them. There is a reason, even tho they do it for a living, if you let the job drag out too long, it is tough many times to get good production of a small crew, they sort of "Burn Out". My partner had this habit of "Getting Bored" on bigger jobs. It can get into a sort of rut. Trying to get subs has its own sets of problems. I don't know if it ever was "Fun". There could be some satisfaction at the end if well done. Many times you would have to fight with the customer because of this "Pretty" stuff. They saw progress only when it looked "Pretty" and the appearance was improving. All the rest never counted and was sort of expected but also assumed would happen over night. There can be a sort of mentality at work. And when folks use certain words it does put them in a type of category in my book.
I've done two rehabs for myself. Just me the one lil lonely guy battling tide of stuff that comes at you. Both I did virtually all of it. Both took two years, one I had a regular day job. Even without a job it is a battle. You also find out who your best buddies are. After a while nobody shows up at your house. Nobody helped me on either of the two I did for myself. It can become more a grind than anything else. Your social life sure does suffer. Even very well managed and if everything goes smooth it can affect your good humor. Everybody you talk too that has much experience in a self run job all agree the best part was when it ended. You do wonder if the focus is a bit too theorical, directed to the appearance to begin with and if that survives to the end, what is the final end product.
I probably did close to 50 rehabs of various sizes and categories as a contractor. Totally different that doing one yourself. Along the way you do learn some things. Most of it is nothing but grunt and dog work. The really skilled parts are sort of nice but that work is in the minority. So I wonder about the idea of love of it and turning it into a hobby. Woodworking in a shop is so much better as a hobby.
One other factor in play these dazes. The surplus building supplies market is dying up. Lot less materials available and what there is tends to be going up in price. The consumer junk materials out of the big box stores, tends to be same as always, junk materials.
I'm not being critical, more like saying have you really thought of all the angles and what it can really be like. Some of it makes no real sense to me based on the real World. A focus on appearance is always a red flag to me.
I think I understand what you're saying about making things pretty, and not right. But I could care less about "status."
I think this is a hobby in the same way restoring a car is a hobby. If you love the car you're working on, you don't care if you make money when its done.
I don't have all the answers yet. I haven't had a chance to really look at every corner of the house. (and that will be impossible until all the garbage and debris is cleaned out)
For example, it might be more economical in the long run to convert the house to a forced air heating system. But I don't know the layout well enough to know if a chase can be run from the basement to the second floor in a non-intrusive way. Or, if I make the attic an unfinished space, vent and insulate the roof as you describe. I could have 2 smaller furnaces: one in the basement for the first floor, and one in the attic for the second.
If it seems like I'm focused on style and how it looks, that's because I want to be interested in the house I'm going to be putting so much effort into. Going back to the car analogy, if you're into muscle cars, you wouldn't be very interested in restoring a model T.
I know this is going to take me a long time. That's OK. I don't even want to start thinking about moving for at least a year. I've made a commitment to my current neighborhood, (I'm treasurer of the neighborhood assn.) and the housing market is going to be slow for awhile longer anyway. Maybe, by the time I'm able to move into the project house, it will be easier to sell my current house.
As you're probably guessed already, I don't have any real world experience with this kind of thing. But I'd rather do something than sit around and watch it get demolished.
I think I understand what you're saying about making things pretty, and not right. But I could care less about "status."
I think this is a hobby in the same way restoring a car is a hobby. If you love the car you're working on, you don't care if you make money when its done.
I don't have all the answers yet. I haven't had a chance to really look at every corner of the house. (and that will be impossible until all the garbage and debris is cleaned out)
For example, it might be more economical in the long run to convert the house to a forced air heating system. But I don't know the layout well enough to know if a chase can be run from the basement to the second floor in a non-intrusive way. Or, if I make the attic an unfinished space, vent and insulate the roof as you describe. I could have 2 smaller furnaces: one in the basement for the first floor, and one in the attic for the second.
If it seems like I'm focused on style and how it looks, that's because I want to be interested in the house I'm going to be putting so much effort into. Going back to the car analogy, if you're into muscle cars, you wouldn't be very interested in restoring a model T.
I know this is going to take me a long time. That's OK. I don't even want to start thinking about moving for at least a year. I've made a commitment to my current neighborhood, (I'm treasurer of the neighborhood assn.) and the housing market is going to be slow for awhile longer anyway. Maybe, by the time I'm able to move into the project house, it will be easier to sell my current house.
As you're probably guessed already, I don't have any real world experience with this kind of thing. But I'd rather do something than sit around and watch it get demolished.
House #1 (or any other place you buy) is your baby-----------no one else's assuming you are single
As for renovating the HVAC: you may be wise in going with forced air so AC can be piggybacked if so desired.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
