Is Houston's low cost of living a myth? (The Woodlands, Georgetown: condos, mortgage)

[Cabot]

Originally Posted by one of two

Houston is the armpit of AmeriKa. Seriously, how else would you get highly educated people here without cheap housing and high paying jobs? It just wont happen otherwise, Houston has nothing to offer except corn syrup and tons of children.

Not again with the Corn Syrup, what is it with him? Really odd.

[jerbear30]

Originally Posted by Zhang Fei

No offense, but the upscale liberal areas generally cited tend to be high income whitopias lacking even Asians. It's not that inequality doesn't exist, but rich white liberals don't like seeing it, and therefore tend to self-segregate so that they end up living among other rich white liberals. This is why they tend to fight off low-income housing tooth and nail with zoning restrictions and environmental lawsuits. Fortunately, disparate impact lawsuits are starting to break down the legal fortifications enacted by liberal strongholds. In time, low-income minorities are coming to liberal whitopias via federally-mandated housing projects whether they like it or not. The beauty of Houston is that it lacks zoning, so the kind of self-segregation you tend to see in liberal whitopias is non-existent.

Everything here is pretty much true, but the same is of course true of wealthy white conservatives. What your argument proves is not that wealthy liberal white people are hypocrites, but that the vast majority of all wealthy people are hypocrites. The accumulation of wealth in a capitalist economy itself is not what we think it is--it does not create opportunity for the poor or middle class people of any political stripe, but instead codifies increasingly smaller and smaller elite zones of "whitopia"--whether those are conservative havens or liberal havens is ultimately beside the pointof the argument you are making, if you follow it through to its conclusion.

[testmo]

Originally Posted by jek74

Regarding economic equality, the problem is liberals do not want to live in these diverse communities. They, just like the Woodlands crowd, flees away from those darker skinned folks. No, they don't run to the Woodlands, no culture there. They run to SF where I can count the number of blacks on one hand. They run to the north shore of Chicago where I also can count the minorities on one hand. In NY they go out to Westchester. In LA Malibu. See here's the deal. These "poor people" right. They can't transform their neighborhoods on their own. Why? Well.....they are kind of broke. They need people of some affluence to live there. To bring economic vitality into the community. When these "liberals" refuse to do that and instead run to both coasts and live in neighborhoods where the colored folk are cutting their grass instead of sending their kids to the same school, well, economic diversity is never going to happen. I have seen this everywhere I have lived. I'm not saying conservatives are any better. They are just as bad. But to act like liberals are actually making an effort....well, that's laughable.

okay - you just lost your whole argument based off your first sentence. i hope that was brought up earlier

im a rich (considering this country's and state's median income) white liberal in the second most democratic voting district in this city. it is a well off area for the city of Houston, but aint no river oaks. economic disparity? yeah i hear that all the time about Houston SW. quite a few of you have posted it on these boards. hey i'm the one living here and i'm telling you it's great. you, jek, keep posting about how awesome the woodlands is

Houston is cheaper than living in Manhattan and SF. no one is trying to argue that. you can be trailer trash from bako and set yourself up like a king in Rosenberg or Katy and prepare for retirement.

or you could be a person renting a half of a duplex without a garage, 2 small bedrooms, 1 bath, in a 80 year old building without central air for $1,200 a month inside the loop. is that cheap? no. the 80 yr old house that hasn't had anything more than cosmetic renovation inside the loop for $475,000 (1,450 sq ft). you can find properties like that for that price in Chicago, LA, Seattle - but you'd live in a city where most people would say it is worth it

Houston, overall, is cheaper than the other major US cities and big tourist cities as one would imagine. But, we are not the holy grail. We are not "hey I'm leaving CA and I'm looking for a 7,000 sq ft home with a pool, 3 car garage, excellent schools because my 3 year old is a genius BUT they have to be willing to work with kids that have a propensity to turn anything into a weapon, for $200k because my husband and I are thinking about getting college degrees"

nearly that exact same scenario has been posted repeatedly as a real request

[Zhang Fei]

Originally Posted by jek74

You're joking right?

I blame his ignorance on the fact that most NYC-based TV series are shot on Hollywood back lots *and* tend to focus on the nicer parts of town for exterior shots. And it's understandable. The lavish interiors of TV series homes can't be afforded on the meager salaries of its working class protagonists either, but plenty of people seem to think that's the norm.

[jek74]

Originally Posted by testmo

okay - you just lost your whole argument based off your first sentence. i hope that was brought up earlier

im a rich white liberal in the second most democratic voting district in this city. it is a well off area for the city of Houston, but aint no river oaks. economic disparity? yeah i hear that all the time about Houston SW. quite a few of you have posted it on these boards. hey i'm the one living here and i'm telling you it's great. you, jek, keep posting about how awesome the woodlands is

Houston is cheaper than living in Manhattan and SF. no one is trying to argue that. you can be trailer trash from bako and set yourself up like a king in Rosenberg or Katy and prepare for retirement.

or you could be a person renting a half of a duplex without a garage, 2 small bedrooms, 1 bath, in a 80 year old building without central air for $1,200 a month inside the loop. is that cheap? no. the 80 yr old house that hasn't had anything more than cosmetic renovation inside the loop for $475,000 (1,450 sq ft). you can find properties like that for that price in Chicago, LA, Seattle - but you'd live in a city where most people would say it is worth it

None of your argument made sense to me. Ever heard of data mining? That's when you go through thousands of bits of data and pull out the once piece that fits your point of view. I have spent time posting some rentals and condos from CL and the response I always get from some of you is, oh you don't want to live there. There are scary people around the corner (blacks). Maybe too scary for you but I've lived in areas where I was the only white dude for 40 city blocks in Brooklyn. So maybe I don't scare as easy as you do, who knows. I can show you rents in St. Louis for $400 a month and some for 4k. Every city has a huge range in rents and real estate prices. See, the difference between you and me is I actually put some hard raw numbers on the board. Sure some of you went kicking and screaming, but I put it out there. You post vague statements like retiring in Katy for cheap or some old run down building that costs a fortune. Start posting some facts dude. Link to me to listing. I'll write down the street address and link something probably one block away at half the cost.

You remind of an armchair economist who tells us on the one hand this and on the other hand that. Or the sportscaster who says Houston might win today but they might also lose. The weather forecaster who says it might rain today, but maybe not. The financial pundit that says stocks could go up or they could go down. You never really SAY anything. Yeah, I get it, there is variance in real estate prices. No kidding. Tell me more!

[jek74]

Originally Posted by Zhang Fei

I blame his ignorance on the fact that most NYC-based TV series are shot on Hollywood back lots *and* tend to focus on the nicer parts of town for exterior shots. And it's understandable. The lavish interiors of TV series homes can't be afforded on the meager salaries of its working class protagonists either, but plenty of people seem to think that's the norm.

That's right. Rachel from friends can afford a 2k sq ft loft apt in Greenwhich village while waitressing at the Central Perk Coffee shop!!!!

[theSUBlime]

Houston's cheaper pound for pound anyway. I don't know why we're having this discussion.

[jek74]

Originally Posted by theSUBlime

Houston's cheaper pound for pound anyway. I don't know why we're having this discussion.

Because if you drive a BMW 7 series and live in a 45k sq foot home and have a helicopter on your roof and dine out 365 days a year Houston honestly is not as cheap as it looks.

[houston-nomad]

Originally Posted by jek74

Regarding economic equality, the problem is liberals do not want to live in these diverse communities. They, just like the Woodlands crowd, flees away from those darker skinned folks. No, they don't run to the Woodlands, no culture there. They run to SF where I can count the number of blacks on one hand. They run to the north shore of Chicago where I also can count the minorities on one hand. In NY they go out to Westchester. In LA Malibu. See here's the deal. These "poor people" right. They can't transform their neighborhoods on their own. Why? Well.....they are kind of broke. They need people of some affluence to live there. To bring economic vitality into the community. When these "liberals" refuse to do that and instead run to both coasts and live in neighborhoods where the colored folk are cutting their grass instead of sending their kids to the same school, well, economic diversity is never going to happen. I have seen this everywhere I have lived. I'm not saying conservatives are any better. They are just as bad. But to act like liberals are actually making an effort....well, that's laughable.

Way to paint with a broad brush! Liberals won't live with people of color? What are you smoking? Here's one liberal who LOVES the Westbury area because it is diverse. It is diverse racially, and somewhat diverse economically; not much ghetto or real wealth, but a range of middle-class incomes. I love that my kids don't see a difference in people because of the color of their skin.

You're never going to be right when you make ridiculous generalizations like that. Why waste your time?

[Zhang Fei]

Originally Posted by houston-nomad

Here's one liberal who LOVES the Westbury area because it is diverse. It is diverse racially, and somewhat diverse economically; not much ghetto or real wealth, but a range of middle-class incomes.

Westbury seems to be 80% white although that number is going down over time. It appears that a lot of white liberals are fleeing diversity. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.