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Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,142,616 times
Reputation: 3145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jek74
None of your argument made sense to me. Ever heard of data mining? That's when you go through thousands of bits of data and pull out the once piece that fits your point of view. I have spent time posting some rentals and condos from CL and the response I always get from some of you is, oh you don't want to live there. There are scary people around the corner (blacks). Maybe too scary for you but I've lived in areas where I was the only white dude for 40 city blocks in Brooklyn. So maybe I don't scare as easy as you do, who knows. I can show you rents in St. Louis for $400 a month and some for 4k. Every city has a huge range in rents and real estate prices. See, the difference between you and me is I actually put some hard raw numbers on the board. Sure some of you went kicking and screaming, but I put it out there. You post vague statements like retiring in Katy for cheap or some old run down building that costs a fortune. Start posting some facts dude. Link to me to listing. I'll write down the street address and link something probably one block away at half the cost.
You remind of an armchair economist who tells us on the one hand this and on the other hand that. Or the sportscaster who says Houston might win today but they might also lose. The weather forecaster who says it might rain today, but maybe not. The financial pundit that says stocks could go up or they could go down. You never really SAY anything. Yeah, I get it, there is variance in real estate prices. No kidding. Tell me more!
I appreciate the civil exchange we've had on this topic and thank you for keeping it as such.
I respect your opinions, but don't agree with them all. I believe thats the underlying value of this whole exercise.
That said, may I offer a friendly observation for what it's worth? You seem to go off the rails a bit when you attempt to read into what people are saying to you, or when you make assumptions about people's points of view based on a label you have defined for them.
Who said anything about black people in any of this? What does "liberal" have to do with COL?
You went so far as to get pretty rude and attempted to insult me and my wife in another thread, based on this shorthand thinking--enough to anger disinterested third parties, who reported you. I didn't report your posts, nor did I really care to see them removed, as I think they were a pretty good illustration of my argument against your positions.
Instead, I have attempted to re-engage you on a civil level, because you and I seem to both be interested in Houston.
So, allow me to propose that we put all that behind us and continue to approach one another in this way. I think you made some good points when you weren't rushing to judge or trying to insult me.
Shall we agree to proceed as gentlemen, now that we've displayed we can?
Way to paint with a broad brush! Liberals won't live with people of color? What are you smoking? Here's one liberal who LOVES the Westbury area because it is diverse. It is diverse racially, and somewhat diverse economically; not much ghetto or real wealth, but a range of middle-class incomes. I love that my kids don't see a difference in people because of the color of their skin.
You're never going to be right when you make ridiculous generalizations like that. Why waste your time?
No, you misread my post again. "Rich" white liberals. Poor white liberals don't have much choice.
I appreciate the civil exchange we've had on this topic and thank you for keeping it as such.
I respect your opinions, but don't agree with them all. I believe thats the underlying value of this whole exercise.
That said, may I offer a friendly observation for what it's worth? You seem to go off the rails a bit when you attempt to read into what people are saying to you, or when you make assumptions about people's points of view based on a label you have defined for them.
Who said anything about black people in any of this? What does "liberal" have to do with COL?
You went so far as to get pretty rude and attempted to insult me and my wife in another thread, based on this shorthand thinking--enough to anger disinterested third parties, who reported you. I didn't report your posts, nor did I really care to see them removed, as I think they were a pretty good illustration of my argument against your positions.
Instead, I have attempted to re-engage you on a civil level, because you and I seem to both be interested in Houston.
So, allow me to propose that we put all that behind us and continue to approach one another in this way. I think you made some good points when you weren't rushing to judge or trying to insult me.
Shall we agree to proceed as gentlemen, now that we've displayed we can?
Sure. But for the record, the things that tend to "drive me off the rails" is when I take the time to post hard data and I get subjective opinions in return. I'm a numbers guy and I deal best with numbers. Not with vague statements like, oh that area is not that nice. Or why would I live in that area. One of the reasons I like to use numbers is that it keeps the emotion out of the argument. I try to consistently on here post hard numbers whenever possible. I'll post links to HAR.com or pull up real demographic info. It's always harder to argue with real numbers. I understand there is nuance in data. But the data gives us a baseline.
What also bothers me and what drove my anger towards you were the subtle innuendo of "I'm better then you" with references to where you would never live or restaurants you would never eat at. As someone who grew up poor that bothers me a lot. There are a lot of people who shop at Walmart not because of the style but because they HAVE to. There are a lot of people who live in the burbs because they HAVE to. There are people who eat at chain restaurants because they HAVE to. But when you lump all these people in as unsophisticated or less then desirable it bothers me and quite frankly it bothers others on this board. And while some objected to my posts, I got tons of comments supporting them. Even though I fly off the rails sometimes and have a sharp tongue, I judge NO ONE under ANY circumferences. Regardless of their skin color, their voting record, the socioeconomic status, their religion, ANYTHING. If I attack you, it's because of what you SAY, not because of what you ARE.
Having said all that, I have no problem with keeping it civil. But I do speak my mind. I'll do my best to keep as much subjectivity out of it as I can and stick with the cold hard numbers.
What also bothers me and what drove my anger towards you were the subtle innuendo of "I'm better then you" with references to where you would never live or restaurants you would never eat at. As someone who grew up poor that bothers me a lot. There are a lot of people who shop at Walmart not because of the style but because they HAVE to. There are a lot of people who live in the burbs because they HAVE to. There are people who eat at chain restaurants because they HAVE to.But when you lump all these people in as unsophisticated or less then desirable it bothers me and quite frankly it bothers others on this board. And while some objected to my posts, I got tons of comments supporting them. Even though I fly off the rails sometimes and have a sharp tongue, I judge NO ONE under ANY circumferences. Regardless of their skin color, their voting record, the socioeconomic status, their religion, ANYTHING. If I attack you, it's because of what you SAY, not because of what you ARE.
Ten thumbs, way, way up. Apropos of nothing, there's an amusing anecdote about Steve Jobs of Apple fame and Joan Baez:
Quote:
In his new biography Steve Jobs Walter Isaacson tells an incredible story about them. Jobs (who was already massively wealthy) kept telling Baez (who wasn’t) about this amazing red dress at a Ralph Lauren store. He took her to the store and bought a bunch of shirts for himself. Then he showed her the dress.
“You ought to buy it,” he said. She couldn’t afford it. They left. He didn’t buy her the dress. “I felt a bit strange about it,” she says.
Please telle when I said "I would never live" somewhere or " I would never eat at that restaurant". Again, I think you mixed me up with someone else.
I don't have the posts saved but it was awhile back when we were talking about why you moved to SF and mentioned all the chains here. And some conversation we had about the Woodlands in which you responded you would never live there or in a place like that. Forgive me for not linking the posts, but we had some lengthy conversations specifically on those two topics when you were explaining why you left Houston for SF. I think I even asked you point blank, I bet you are the type of guy that would never shop at Walmart and I believe you agreed with me. It was during that whole dialogue. I was giving you overview of what I thought the type of person was like who "typically" leaves Houston for SF and talks about how great one is over the other. I strongly believe that most people who do not like Houston the real reason is more cultural then it is it's too crowded or too hot. Nothing wrong with that of course. I also stated that is probably why a lot of people move specifically from NY or CA to Houston. Anyway, it is what it is. I'll try to keep to the facts. I just think a lot of people on here need to understand that most people in life, not all, but most people, make decisions based on economics. So where they eat, where they live, where they shop, where they go to school, etc. And I stated on here many times, if money were not an object and I was cool with just blowing money into the wind, I wouldn't mind living in SF either.
Your post makes no sense. Housing is cheap in Houston across the board. The suburbs are embarrassingly cheap (compared to the top 5 largest cities in the US) and even housing in the loop is dirt cheap when also compared to other downtown living in the top 5 cities. Price me a condo in River North Chicago, Murray Hill in Manhattan, Brentwood in LA, Beacon Hill in Boston or Georgetown in DC. On a "relative" basis Houston is not even close. It's way cheaper. And property taxes are generally cheaper in the loop in Houston vs the Burbs. Honestly, it's not even close. Your avg mortgage in Houston compared to Chicago, LA, NY, Boston or DC will be 1/3rd of those. And a majority of your cost of living is going towards that mortgage. Throw in cheaper gas prices and food costs and it's mind blowing.
Sorry, but Houston isn't even in the same universe as the areas you listed. Straw man...
Do people realize that it's mostly transplants that are bragging about the cost of living compared to where they come from. Not the Native Houstonians. And it is cheaper compared to most cities. Even if you factor in you're lavish lifestyle you still can get more bang for your buck when compared to other cities.
Then there's the old saw - "you get what you pay for"...
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,142,616 times
Reputation: 3145
Quote:
Originally Posted by jek74
I don't have the posts saved but it was awhile back when we were talking about why you moved to SF and mentioned all the chains here. And some conversation we had about the Woodlands in which you responded you would never live there or in a place like that. Forgive me for not linking the posts, but we had some lengthy conversations specifically on those two topics when you were explaining why you left Houston for SF. I think I even asked you point blank, I bet you are the type of guy that would never shop at Walmart and I believe you agreed with me. It was during that whole dialogue. I was giving you overview of what I thought the type of person was like who "typically" leaves Houston for SF and talks about how great one is over the other. I strongly believe that most people who do not like Houston the real reason is more cultural then it is it's too crowded or too hot. Nothing wrong with that of course. I also stated that is probably why a lot of people move specifically from NY or CA to Houston. Anyway, it is what it is. I'll try to keep to the facts. I just think a lot of people on here need to understand that most people in life, not all, but most people, make decisions based on economics. So where they eat, where they live, where they shop, where they go to school, etc. And I stated on here many times, if money were not an object and I was cool with just blowing money into the wind, I wouldn't mind living in SF either.
Well, I will own the Wal-Mart thing. It's not out of snobbery. I think they are a terrible company and I don't like the shopping experience. I also prefer local restaurants to chains (there honestly aren't many chains at all in SF), but am surely not above a visit to a chain when I'm in the East Bay.
The Woodlands thing is another issue. Many years ago, I worked to promote the development of Town Center and I know a lot about The Woodlands. I really like the community, but it is inconvenient for someone working in Houston. That is the only reason I wouldn't want to live there--not some political or socioeconomic leaning. Sorry you misread my intent.
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